Finn had another one today

Getting started with the CEN discussion forum.

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DMH123
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:45 am

Post by DMH123 » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:29 am

Lilly had the more mild focal seizures last night around 7pm. My husband and I were out to dinner with some of his work colleagues, but my daughters were home. I hadn't been home all day, went straight from work to this dinner commitment. I asked my girls to feed her and give her the dinner meds. She didn't have any grand mal, just staring, shaking, and then she'd fall over. My daughter gave her 2 more PB tablets and by the time we got home she was fine...well not seizing. I was worried that she'd have a big one last night, but she didn't.

I don't know if we should "restart" the countdown or not. These are almost like little "break through" seizures. My daughter assured me that she had given Lilly her usual dose of PB with her dinner around 5pm, so this happened very shortly after which concerns me.

The only thing I noticed when I got home around 8:30pm was that her water bowl was empty. The girls assured me again that she hadn't been without water all evening...but they are both teenagers, so I don't know how sure I am about that. Would being a little dehydrated bring on a seizure? She drinks so much water due to the meds, we keep her bowl full all the time. I'm not even sure she would dehydrate that quickly. Sounds stupid, but I'm just looking for reasons....probably a wasted effort.

I don't plan to change anything right now and we'll see how she does.
Debbie H with Lilly
Jan 2003-Oct 9, 2006
Gone but never forgotten

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
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Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:55 am

We ask our self all the time what could have started it this time. can`t come up with anything.I worry the whole time I`m at work,till I`m in the driveway and can see that face in the window.hope you have a long count down
wags&slurps
Debby&Dylan

kain
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:16 am
Location: Athens, Greece

KAIN IS DOING REALLY BAD!!!

Post by kain » Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:10 am

Hi again!

Kain is doing really bad. I don't know what happened suddenly to him. He is terribly dizzy and he is not able to stand on his feet. He has very severe ataxia. He is also trembling. Just can't see him like that. I am trying to figure out what happened to him so suddenly? He had a minor seizure on the 9th but should he not have recovered from it? I increased his KBR but this was one week ago. Could it be that he shows only now the signs because of the increase? Is the KBR dosage too high for him? He is on 1000 mg every 24 hrs.This is really hard!!! What shall I do now??
Helen (Mom of Kain)
Run free my precious Kain!!
30/09/97~14/10/06

DMH123
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:45 am

Post by DMH123 » Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:23 pm

I'm so sorry Kain is struggling right now, as are you. I have noticed from reading posts over the past 4 months that I've been attentive to this website that there does seem to be some real differences in which medication (PB or KBr) that people feel is responsible for the ataxia. Lilly was taking PB for quite a while before we started the KBr and we never noticed the ataxia until we tried to increase the KBr beyond 900mg once/day. We went to 600 mg BID and that's really when it hit her. All the while we had made incremental increases in PB to her current level and not noticed it. However, some are only giving their dog PB and they are seeing it. We backed off the KBr back to 900 mg once/day, but we still give her 350 mg a day split into 3 doses, AM, dinner, and bedtime.

I can't remember all the details around Kain, so forgive me for asking again. Is Kain only on KBr? How much does he weigh? I'm thinking he might be about Lilly's size. I was just wondering if you can afford to increase the PB and decrease the KBr for a while to get Kain back.

Another thought...maybe he's just having constant focal seizures rather than ataxia? Has he had those before? That's what Lilly has sometimes (and had Monday night) and they are one after another and she can't walk or stand and is constantly falling over as they "hit" her. Just another thought. I may be way off since I'm not there to see it.
Debbie H with Lilly
Jan 2003-Oct 9, 2006
Gone but never forgotten

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:34 pm

big hugs to kain! Dylan is only on phn right now, and he can barley walk. hoping the clusters have stopped so we can start backing back down. vet said maybe starting him on kbr, does that mean we will have to watch him go thru this again?
Hope Kain is better
wags & slurps to you
Debby&Dylan

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:05 pm

Hi All,
It's so very confusing, isn't it? What seems to effect one dog, is just so different for another. We have increased Casey's PB and KBr at the same times in small increments, 5 times now in the past 17 months. The last increase we went from PB 75 mg. BID to 90 mg. KBr was increased from 625 mg. SID to 700 mg. Casey weighs 46 lbs. When the ataxia hit him last week, I was able to decrease the PB as it was one tablet and I just split it into 4ths-giving him 3/4 instead of the whole tablet (with vets approval) I was unable to decrease the KBr due to it coming in compounded capsules and wouldn't really know just how much he was getting. The PB dose is actually smaller than the 75 mg. he was last on, before the increase, but has cleared up the ataxia to the point where he still has some problems rising from the floor but at least he can walk again and is pretty much back to his old self.
We are now at 50 days and almost ready to pass our goal of 53 days! I probably shouldn't say this, but fingers crossed we will make it this time.
Helen, you may need to ask the vet what they think, maybe you could try a slight reduction just to see what happens. I really had no choice with Casey. I mean, the poor guy couldn't even stand to pee and was falling over while peeing, pretty sad. Every time he went out I had to stop him before going down the stairs and physically lift his back end off each step because he would have gone tumbling down (which he did once). I really hated to cut the dose back because he's done so well this time, but I really felt I had no choice. I sure hope Kain and Dylan will be feeling better soon and the ataxia will clear up. Keeping Dylan and Kain in my thoughts as well as best wishes for the others.
Debbie
Casey epi since 05/10/05 and Callie his non epi sister.

kain
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:16 am
Location: Athens, Greece

KAIN CUTTING BACK ON KBR!

Post by kain » Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:49 am

Hello all,

thank you so much for your mails and support. I cut back on the KBR yesterday and I gave him iNstead of 1000 mg half of the pill. I had to break it in half (IT IS A PILL), which is actually not easy. I am pretty sure that his severe ataxia was due to the increase of KBR (from 500 mg to 1000 mg once a day) . Only that he was doing well for one week and his showed signs just now. I will keep him on that and keep also the BP on 75mg twice a day. Kain was doing very very well (concerning ataxia and barking and peeing again like a normal male dog) when he was only on BP. (75 mg twice per day) .But he was having seizures every 2 weeks. Kain weighs about 26 kg.Anyway as you said before I have no choice than to cut back on KBR. It is better that he seizes once a while than having him as a zombie.
Already today I could see a slight improvement. But honestly you think it is anything worth to keep your dog as a zombie?! I will not have him like this.
I hope he will get back on his feet very soon and I know it can be done.
The hardest thing I guess is to have them behave "normal" and not to seize.
Really hard to achieve!

All the best and I really hope Dylan will do better soon. KBr affects each dog in a different way. Maybe for Dylan it will work.

All the best!

Love, Helen
Helen (Mom of Kain)
Run free my precious Kain!!
30/09/97~14/10/06

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:05 am

Hugs to Kain& helen. I think It would be better to deal with 1or 2 seizures a month then to make Kain a zombie. Jeff&I could have easily lived with 2 in one day with the 5 weeks inbetween. and will be very happy to get back to that. don`t know the metric table, but a bulldog would weigh about the same as a border collie? 50 lbs? 1000 milgrs seems alot, I sure hope he doesn`t want to start Dylan on that much.
wags&slurps to you
Debby%Dylan

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:20 am

will be sending calming strenght to Finn while you are away.

snozzel
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:26 pm
Location: hong kong

Post by snozzel » Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:26 pm

Hi Helen
Glad Kain is doing better - I was getting a bit worried there! I have also had to cut back on KBr on one occasion. In fact, for Smythe the aftermath was not nice. We went from having fairly mild GMs to a couple of really 'severe' ones. It was scarey - so be prepared for this - hope it doesn't happen to you.
Smythe is doing well. The last period without a seizure was 5 weeks! This was a 3-year record!! It did take him quite a while to recover. The aspirin is helping him I think. That said, we are fairly resigned now to the fact that the rainbow bridge is in sight for him be it this year or next. But it's OK - just old age...need to make all his days full of lovin : - )
Sarah

kain
Posts: 94
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:16 am
Location: Athens, Greece

KAIN TODAY

Post by kain » Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:09 am

Hi all,

today Kain was again not very well. Don't know what's wrong with him....
Anyway I guess it will take him a couple of days until he gets balanced again. Yes they weigh about the same... and 1000 mg is a lot. I calculated his highest dosage of KBr to be slightly under 800 mg. So 200 mg above makes a difference. Dylan is on PB only?
How old is Smythe? On what dosage is he now? Sorry I ask questions that you have already answered in the forum but I can't remember well.

Thanks to all of you and I keep you posted.

Helen and Kain
Helen (Mom of Kain)
Run free my precious Kain!!
30/09/97~14/10/06

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:02 am

so sorry Kain is not better.
my Vet hs talked about krb, but wants to try just pb for now.Dylan is new enough at this we haven`t got a doseage worked out.we don`t expect him to be seizure free, but hope to get it as far apart as we can.maybe the incresae was too much shock too his system. I`m so new to this, I can`t be any help
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

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