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Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Hello, new here

Post by Dylans Dad » Sun Oct 08, 2006 9:42 am

Dylan is our 3 1/2 year old bordercollie.on aug 7 he had his first seazure.he had 4 more that day. vet started him on phenabarbitol. he went 5 weeks till his next one. on sept 17 he had 2.yesterday,he had 1 at 2 pm,another at 8:30 pm,again at 10, 1:30 and just had another 1/2 hour ago.he seems to go a few weeks free, then clusters.he has always had the grand mall types.I feel so helpless. he is such a happy,energetic dog. I can`t keep him drugged to the point he is not our Dilly.
you wqill more then likly be seeing alot of me. I need help dealing with this

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:22 pm

Hi Dylans Dad and welcome to this site. Sorry you had to join us but we are here to try and help and give each other support.
There are a few things we need to know--
1. has he just had vaccinations - if so how long ago?
2 have you used tick, flea heartworm treatment lately - herding breeds do not take kindly to this treatment - especially anything with PLUS?
3. have you suddenly changed his food over ?
4. any weed killers or grass treatments/sprays nearby?
5. has the vet done blood tests to get the start levels - he will need something to compare the next lot to to make sure theraputic levels are being reached.

PB will take a few weeks to get to the levels of controlling the seizures, however it will not stop the seizures unless you are very luckly.
Once the correct levels are reached your vet may want to swap over to KBr. This is a little less hard on the liver - however PB is not not as bad as it is made out to be.As long as the correct tests are done to keep an eye on it.
I suggest you try and read up on the posting here and on Guardian Angels site ( through LINKS - LHS) .
Once the seizures are under control your dog will have a long and happy life.
You may want to think about him getting a hypothyroid test done - only go by Dr Jean Dodds test as it takes into account the breed of the dog whereas the others don't. You can check up on this through GA also. Diagnostic testing at top of page.
Also check out the ice pack treatment as this may help to shorten the seizures. Check out postings by itdincor.
Keep in touch.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Sun Oct 08, 2006 12:45 pm

Hi Jane. I`m really Dylans mom, my Hubby found this site and logged in real early this morning.
and yes to your questions.
he was at the vet for his shots a week ago.
the 1st of oct he had his flea and heartworm.hopefully the last of this year. calling for our first snow next week.
the only blood tests were the first time he went in,about 20 mins after his second seizure on aug 7.
been reading around here alot, most seem to be on a combination of meds. well check in to this more,and see about a nero specialist around.
will try the icepack next time(hopefully not for a few days)
couldn`t find the link to gauridan angels
Love your breed of dog.
thank you
Debby

skrpio
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:32 pm

The link to Guardian Angels is on the left hand side of this site just below CEN Discussion forum.
Click on links - epi guardian angels just down from the top of the page. Go to table of contents - diagnostic testing is at the very top and all the other bits of info are further down. Great reading to pick up new bits of advice.
As for the vaccinations and flea/heartworm treatments - all of this so close together is too much for their systems to cope with. There is much research to indicate that dogs are being over vaccinated and after their initial puppy shots they should be covered for the rest of their lives. I understand Rabies shots are compulsory in the US but all of the other stuff is unnecessary. It is advisable to titer before vaccinations are due to see if they still have an immunity. Humans are not re-vaccinated every year and only certain diseases are boosted maybe once in every 10 years - so why do we vaccinate our dogs every year. KiKi started her seizures 14 days (that I am aware of ) after her two year old shots. After checking with Dr Dodds by email she advised me never to get her vaccinated again as it may kill her. Some dogs set up what is called an auto-immume reaction where their body tries to overcome the vaccinations (similar to a person being stung by a bee for the first time), and when you think how many different bugs the vets inject at one time , it's no wonder some dog react in they way that they do.
Most vets will not accept this theory. Whether it is to do will them losing money if we do not vaccinate or not I do not know. I do know that Jean Dodds has been studying this for about 40 years and knows what she is talking about. I was fortunate to be able to attend her lecture on this when she came out to New Zealand a few months ago and there is a definate connection between vaccinations and seizures. Check out her vaccination protocol through Guardian Angels.
Sometimes a combination of meds is not necessary but it is something you and your vet need to decide. Every dog is different. KiKi is only on PB. Some dogs cannot handle KBr and some need both.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:59 am

well Dylan had another one at around 2pm yestrday afternoon. called the vet and took him in. he gave him 10 cc vaium.he slept most of the evening, staggered around to go out and potty.gave him his dose of phen.before bed. he had 2 more over nite. it was hard to tell when the after affects of the seizure ended because of all the drugs.this morning he is very wobbely, pacey and whines.we are upping his dose of phen. and I have the valuim to give at home. I go back to work part time after 4 weeks off cuz ofa surgery

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:38 am

Hi Debby,
I hope Dylan is doing much better today. We are all very sorry that you have had to join the group, but know we are here for you any time you need us. Moral support as well as advise from our personal experinces(although it is just advise and thoughts as none of us our vets) will hopefully see you through. It is very scary witnessing those first seizures, especially when you see 4 or 5 in a row. Some things you may want to do to help you along the way is keep a journal. Times, dates, lenghts of seizures, how Dylan reacted, medications, increases, as much information as you can possibly think of to help you and your vet. Stay calm, very, very important, although easier said then done! I find comforting Casey through his seizures helps me stay in control. Please remember, what works for one dog, may not always work with another and it does take time before the medications start to work. Some of us just beginning this journey are still trying to find the right combination of medications to achieve good control. A few of those here have been very lucky, and their dogs are controlled rather easily and may not have a seizure again for quiet some time, if ever. Unfortunatly though, for most of it, they continue to happen periodically. We have learned to take it one day at a time and try not to let it consume our every thoughts, because it most certainly can. I have to tell myself on occasion "my dog is epileptic and has seizures. The seizures are going to continue, but what we are striving for is good control." That's the best all of us can do. Read as much as you can about it. This site as well as http://www.canine-epilepsy.com. and
http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com all have very informative information. Don't be afraid to share your feelings. That's what we are here for. We have all cried tears with one another as well as rejoiced on the good days. To you as well as any another newcomers "welcome"
Best wishes,
Debbie
Casey epi since 05/10/05 and Callie his non epi sister.
Last edited by lovemypups on Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:03 pm

well, Dylan had another seizure at 8 am this morning. and another at 5 this evening. I think he had one sometime during the time I was at work,it looked like the water bowl had been tidel waved.how much valium and pb do I have to give him to stop the clustering? at least there has been a few hours in between.
stopped on my way home after work, bought the beef liver, geitan and ice cream. will start using them. the ice pack sure appeared to stop the seizures almost imedeintly.
please excuse me, my hubby says I am the worst speller he has ever seen and people will think they are talking to a child.
I wish the posts here weren`t so old. this place has helped me feel alot better.
wags&slurps to those still here
Debby&Dylan

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:45 pm

You need to check with your vet on the doses to give as you cannot muck around with this.
Be careful when you introduce the ice cream and any other new food.
Only use the ice cream in small amounts - ie a tablespoonful.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:45 pm

Hi Debby,
I'm in agreement with Jane that you should contact your vet. I know when Casey had his first cluster he had 9 seizures in 17 hours. Talk about being emotionally drained (me) and he was just totally exhausted. We had just started him on PB that day and it does take around 2 weeks to really get into their systems unless they are given a loading dose. You probably should contact them just to give them an update and let them know what exactly is going on. I call our vets everytime Casey has a seizure (within that day or the next) so they can put it in Casey's file and I also make sure I document it on my computer. Did they give you rectal valium? I normally have to give Casey one to two doses of it, but it does seem to help. Please keep us posted and we are thinking of you and Dylan.
Debbie
Casey epi since 05/10/05 and Callie his non epi sister.

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:36 am

I am planning to call the vet again today when he opens. I`m giving him the amount he told me to sunday.must not be enough to be a loading dose. 2 more over nite. but the ice pack is stopping them.my husband was amazed when he saw it for the first time.his seizures were a couple min.now they stop after a few seconds.and the after time is almost non-exitince.
and I`m a bad mom, there are no new foods as far as my dogs are concered.they have had icecream before. the beef liver was new, but didn`t seem to mind it a bit.I was putting the pills in hot dogs.now it goes in the liver.
watching him stumble around is so hard.
wags&slurps
Debby&Dylan

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:42 pm

If he is on PB there is no loading dose. It takes about 2 - 3 weeks to build up to about the correct levels if the doseage is right in the first place. It is only KBr that is given in a massive dose right off but the fact that it takes months to get to a theraputic level is why PB is given at the beginning. PB is much faster but does not stay in the body more that 12 hours. That is why it is important to give every 12 hours. I am glad to see the icepack works well. the vet will probably say it won't work - but keep using it if it helps. They need to be kept cool after a seizure as their bodies overheat. And not much excercise either - they have just run a marathon. Keep walks slow and short.
You are not bad for not giving your dog new food - in fact if you find a good food that does not cause any problems - stick to it. KiKi has been on the same diet for over a year now - except for the ice cream as it brought on a massive cluster seizure- she is lactose intollerant I think as she is sick after drinking milk too.
If you are adding liver to his deit - do it slowly. Or are you just using the liver to get the pills in ?
Check out Guardian Angels site for Dr Dodds liver cleansing diet. Helps out the liver while they are on PB - but is a good alternative for a change of food. I gave this to KiKi for a week or two - but now she gets it when I remember (keep some in deep freeze)
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:44 pm

There IS a loading dose for Pb. The vets will do that when the dogs are seizing a lot or in clusters to get the body in therapeutic range quicker. Did your vet not suggest a loading dose for you?
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
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Post by Dylans Dad » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:34 pm

Dylan has been on phn sence aug 7 when he had his first cluster.he was so dopey we were backing down the dose. he was on 1/2 a pill a day and had no seizures for 5 weeks.then he had two in 1 day.and went 3 weeks till this round started, and it didn`t seem to want to quit.so far no seizures sence 11:30 last nite.
vet wants me to try 1-3times a day till fri. thinks 12 hour is to far apart. and thinks we may start him of the sodium bromide then.
a lot of dogs are lactouse intollerent, but Dylan has had ice cream before,and loves cheese.
its just going to be a painfull process balenceing the drugs.
wags&slurps
Debby&Dylan

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:43 pm

Nope - the vet didn't say anything about a loading dose. Only that it took a while to get up to the theraputic levels but faster than KBr.
He did tell me to give her an extra dose if she started to cluster but that's all.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:49 am

well, I think we are better, only one yesterday at about 6:30 last evening. and made it thru the nite. course right now at these levels, he`s so dopy he can hardly stand.but he is such a focused dog it may take this to stop clusters.
hope your furbabies are ok
wags&slurps
Debby&Dylan

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