Newbie

[ShilohsMom]

Thank you Ellen,

He had 2 more this evening 1/2 hour apart. Decided to take him to emergency vet. They looked him over but didn't really do anything. Said to give him Valium with the Keppra and I can bring him in for hospitalization if seizures continue. Told me to talk to my vet on Monday about adding Potassium Bromide. Hoping to get some sleep so I won't start snoring in church tomorrow At least Shiloh is finally calm and resting.

Colleen

[Chris Douglas]

aaaww Colleen, can't tell you how sorry I am for the cluster run you two have been thru ... hopefully things will quiet down now and you can get some sleep, see the vet Mon. and hopefully this will be done and over for now ...always seemed like Molly had spells that lasted for 2 days then it would stopped just as suddenly as it started and without any reason for the start or stop ... as the hours passed without more seizures came the sigh of relief before the worry about the next time and when would that be ... or how bad will it be ... hang in there ...

my prayers go out to you and shiloh for peace and quiet ... and tons of restful sleep for both of you ...


Chris

[cforecatsmeow]

Hey Colleen from a fellow sleepless zombie.

I'm sorry Shiloh has continued to seize. Winston has as well. It's just awful and I feel so bad for him. He had two more yesterday a.m. 4:45 and then 5:45 and received his booty Valium and an extra 1/2 Keppra. Sadly, it did not seem to phase him as before and knock him out even though he was stumbling around like a drunkard. He still paced, actually started playing with his sissy Patty and tried to kill my most loved television by throwing his rope toy into it so, once again, I had a feeling it would not be the last and it was not. He had another last night around 6:15 p.m. even though it was much shorter than the previous seizures. I gave him a Valium pill and instead of 1/2 Keppra, I gave an extra 1/2 a Pheno and he finally passed out. Last night was seizure free so we are keeping our paws crossed. We too will be calling the vet today and potentially going in today if he has another.

We have been in a pattern of two every two weeks or two a month basically, but this time we are up to four so I'm very concerned as I know you are as well. We still have a little wiggle room with his dosing so I assume they will just up his Pheno and/or the Keppra. The sleeplessness, the worrying and everything else is sometimes too much to deal with. I am beat down today as well even though I spent most of the day yesterday in nap mode when I could get a chance, I never sleep well at night when he's having seizures and I feel like I've been up all night. I wish we knew why some dogs just do not respond to meds like others. I have a friend at work whose childhood Rotti had epilepsy. She stayed on the lowest dose of Pheno her whole life and made it to a whopping 14 years of age. Sadly, this story annoys me every time she brings it up because I am unfortunately not having the same experience.

I hope Shiloh continues to improve and that you get some rest. What a way to enjoy a weekend.

[Gentle Jacob's mom]

Hi Colleen and Cfore,
I'm so sorry you're having such a hard weekend. Outside of watching our babies go through this, the fear of these effing seizures is the worst. Then add sleep deprivation to the mix and we're all in hell. I'm sorry that I don't remember, but has either of your vets recommended clorazepate for clusters? The other thing that we do is give Jake one extra dose of Pb as soon as he can take it after a seizure. We put it in ice cream and that helps to bring him around sometimes. Then we give an extra 250 mgs of Keppra at 9am and 4pm for the first 24 hours. If that doesn't get him to calm we give another 1/2 of Pb an hour after the 9 am Keppra dose. It makes him dopey, but that's better than clustering. We've stayed away from Kbr because Jake tends to be sensitive to meds so we've steered clear of that for now.
I know how frustrating it is to hear about others who get control with little or no medication. I've helped a few people in my area and their dogs are doing great on one drug.
Colleen, does Shiloh have Aussie in him? If he does, that might be where his seizures have come from. This disease is rampant in the breed now. A woman from South Africa contacted me a couple of years ago searching for answers to her dogs seizures after she discovered her dog's breeder received eggs from a breeder near where Jake was bred. She sent me her dogs genealogy and I did a long search and I found ground zero. Where I believe the dog who passed on everything came from. It didn't do any good for the big picture but it gives me something/someone to scream at when Jake is having a hard time. And people wonder why the breed is being hit so hard! Sorry... I went on a rant.
This disease makes me want to clock something. Before this, the thought would have never crossed my mind.
I hope you're both doing better.
Please keep us posted.
Lynne

[Gentle Jacob's mom]

Hi Cynthia,
Oops.I didn't notice until after I'd posted that your name was with Winston's med information.

Lynne

[ShilohsMom]

Hello all,

Thank you all for sharing your stories and words of encouragement and understanding.

Cynthia, hope Winston is doing well today and your able to feel better.

Good news is that Shiloh hasn't had any more seizures. The not so good is that he spent the night pacing and sniffing around looking for something to eat. So I'm a candidate for a role on The Walking Dead He's still incredibly whiney and clingy. Gave him Rescue Remedy but doesn't seem to help him any. I sorta miss the PB days where he'd at least be calm, this has to be so stressful for him.

His seizures have recently just started clustering this bad, seems to be a progression so there hasn't been any mention of Clorazepate, we'll see what the vet recommends tomorrow but guessing it'll be Kbr.

Yes, Shiloh is part Australian Shepherd and maybe Rott, came from shelter so not 100% sure, but Aussie is evident.

What do you all do to help them settle down? Also do you notice if your dogs nose is really dry? Is that from meds?

I love to hear others successes but can get irritated when they have no understanding that it's not that way for every dog. It's worse than people who don't have to deal with this horrible disease. No clue that we spend our days & nights waiting for the next one we know is coming and when it does it's not just over in minutes and we roll over and go back to sleep or finish reading the paper. It can takes HOURS to get things settled down.

Praying we all have a great day,

Colleen

[Kipsmom]

Colleen - one thing we used to do to get Kip to settle down was to take him for a long walk after a seizure. He was SO keyed up after he'd seize, that it seemed that walking him gave him a way to kind of "reset" his brain. Instead of aimlessly walking around the house frantically, he'd be on a mission. It worked more often than not. He had a lot of nighttime seizures, so my poor husband would be walking him at 3:00 am a lot. Also, I fed him immediately after he seized - like 1/2 a bowl of his food. (As Lynne said, ice cream is often really successful, but with my luck I was afraid Kip would be lactose intolerant - haha.)

Lynne's right about the Clorazepate working for many dogs, so definitely ask about that. We were told to give it to Kip for three days straight after a cluster episode. We had it work the first day that we used it - he was really knocked out. But the second day, he got very hyper and paranoid, and the neurologist described it as him being "under-anethesthized" and told us not to use it anymore. Geez. But it might work well for Shiloh.

Cynthia - I'm so sorry to hear that Winston (and you) are having a rough weekend as well. It's so odd how these things come out of nowhere and then just as quickly disappear. Let us know what the vet says Monday - you too, Colleen!

Thinking of you both!

[Kipsmom]

Colleen - Am I right that Shiloh is no longer on Pb? We had to take Kip off Pb due to a life-threatening side effect, but I got to wondering if a dose of Pb right after a seizure would be OK. Maybe ask your vet about that? Just an idea, since Lynne reminded me how well that works sometimes. An extra dose of Keppra never did a darn thing for Kip, nor did an extra dose of Zoni. He was a stubborn little coot. But they are all different, that's for sure!

[ShilohsMom]

Hi Ellen.

Thanks for the info, actually did take him out last night for a walk and then we went on our morning walk but as of right now he's still whiny and pacing. He will settle back down if I don't get up for a couple hours but the minute I move or get up to feed him or give him meds he's back to being whiney & pacing plus after he eats it's like his stomach is restimulated and he's constantly searching for something to eat. I feel guilty cause I don't know how much longer I can stand having him in my face. Clingy is an understatement!

Shiloh was taken off PB in November because his liver was failing. He was able to recover from that so very grateful.

Colleen

[Gentle Jacob's mom]

I forgot to mention Jake's Clorazepate regimen. Been a bit scattered lately. A good friend recently died. Anyway, Jake gets his Clorazepate right after a seizure, then every eight hours after that. Most of the time only for the first 24 hours and then we give it at 10 am and 10 pm for 24, then at 10 pm on the third day. It all depends on how jumpy he is. Our dog's body language is all we have to know what might be going on. Sometimes I wish Jake could talk so I would know how he's feeling, but there are days when he looks at me a certain way when I'm pretty sure he's come up with another foul word for me, and I'm glad he can't...

Lynne

[cforecatsmeow]

Good afternoon everyone,

Lynne - Glad to hear Shiloh's seizures have stopped. Winston did not have any more seizures past the one on Saturday around 6 p.m. either so I am grateful for that. He was out of it yesterday as was I I finally found the gumption to get up and get motivated and had to get Patty's flea medication and luckily my vet was there. We spoke at length and decided to up the Keppra just slightly to 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 pills tid, so we are going to play around with that a little bit before going up on the Pheno anymore, even though we still do have some wiggle room. I think she is worried about potential toxicity, even though he has demonstrated very little side effects besides sedation at first and hunger at times. Bromide was discussed briefly but she, and I, would prefer to avoid that as a last ditch effort due to the severity of the side effects, even though she said she has several dogs who have done very well on low doses of the drug. She considers it the last option in the long list of available treatment.

I also brought up Zonisamide which she said she would discuss with the neurologist and get back to me, so we'll see! We're, as usual, in the waiting pattern to see how he does and will play around with the Keppra dose to see if we can find a controllable dosing schedule. We did discuss adding another small dose of Pheno to the 1 a.m. dose of Keppra but decided to hold off at this point. Again, I think we prefer to take baby steps before giant leaps in dosing.

Ellen - I am sorry you lost a good friend. As for the Clorazepate, we have used Valium to this point, and I believe they are in the same family but have read that Clorazepate is being used more frequently. If the Valium stops working or is not as effective, I will recommend the drug as well and discuss the dosing that you use. Otherwise, I have a pretty similar usage with the Valium pills and continue to administer over the course of several days after seizures, in particularly when I go to work. Unfortunately, this time the rectal and oral did not seem to effect him as well as in the past but I think he was in a state and nothing much was going to stop it with the exception of sedation and letting it run its course. I also use the lowest dose of rectal and then move up if necessary, which the vet told me not to be afraid to do on days like Saturday if he will not calm down.

Like I said though, he was zonked yesterday and back to his routine drug regimen which was good. The pacing and running around Saturday drove me batty as well Lynne. Winston is like a giant moose running around and tries to barrel through me for food or whatever. He was running into things like a drunkard because of the massive drugs and even stumbled while playing with Patty and rolled over in the floor, which I have to say did make me LOL he was being so silly and did give us at least one laughable moment during the stretch of hell. He almost put the rope through my TV again so I had to take it away until he chilled out It's just crazy.

But, he does seem better and I did start the slight increase of Keppra last night, so we'll see. Had to get Valium pills called in last night as I was out and will pick them up tonight or I would have given him one this morning.

The worst news is that his vet is leaving and starting her own practice, which is still in the area but somewhat far from me, which stinks, so I have to make a decision in that regard. She has done a wonderful job with him, and with me for that matter. She spent a long time with me yesterday just talking about what to do and there are not a lot of vets who would take that time without an appointment.

I hope everyone is doing well today and that Shiloh has calmed down. I am at work and still worried about going home to a giant mess but we are still keeping our paws crossed and hoping for the best.

[cforecatsmeow]

I keep writing Lynne (Gentle Jacob's Mom) when I believe you are Colleen Lack of sleep I tell you. Sorry for the name mistake. You know who you are even if I can't get it straight

[cforecatsmeow]

Hi everyone!

Sorry about the name issues earlier to everyone. I was at work (dealing with lawyers ) and still a little out of it after the weekend. Colleen - I hope Shiloh has calmed down by now. Winston was very close to me this morning but he did not have a seizure today so I am grateful and hoping it continues. He is in good spirits tonight, wrestling with his sissy Patty and is a little more bright-eyed and bushytailed today. These little spells are just so difficult and I just want so bad for us to find a magical place where it does not happen. I try to be so positive, but as you all can tell, when we are in the throws of it all, it's just tough not to be mad about it. I also have a stressful job which just adds to my anxiety level and I swear sometimes I am just exhausted in every single way possible.

Lynne - I know what you mean by wishing our pups could tell us how they feel except I have a feeling Winston's would be repetitive, "FOOD? BONE? IS THAT FOR ME?!!!!"

Wishing everyone the best tonight and hoping for continued success, no matter how big or small, as always.

[ShilohsMom]

Hello all,

Lynne, I'm so sorry that you have lost your friend. My thoughts & prayers are with you.

Cynthia, I laughed at the name mix up. Don't feel bad, heck half the time I call my dogs by one of the others names, then just start running down the list of their names til I get the right one! Glad to hear that Winston has continued to do well and hope that as your reading this he has continued success. Sorry about your vet leaving, it's a tough call and can be a challenge to find a vet who really takes the time and is willing to talk to others in the field to help us deal with the horrible disease and find solutions that will help.

Shiloh continued to be seizure free after Saturday night, however he didn't settle down until 11:00 yesterday morning. I swear, he spent Saturday and Sunday whining, pacing, panting, and more needy than I've ever seen him. The ENTIRE night was spent pacing, sniffing by the nightstand for something to eat, putting his nose in my face. It didn't stop. I couldn't believe Valium had no effect for him and it took 3 days for him to mellow out. I was at the end of my rope, having only about 10 hours of sleep during those 3 days didn't help my patience level and I felt guilty, he can't help it. Last night however he did sleep all night so grateful for that. The vet has added Potassium Bromide to his Keppra. He's on a loading dose this week. He told me it could lead to gastric issues, so it's a good thing I bought the Bissell pet rug cleaner.

I did ask about his dry nose and he said it was just cause he was getting older so glad it wasn't a side effect of the drugs.

Hope everyone is having a great day and continues into the night.

Colleen

[cforecatsmeow]

I'm glad the seizures have stopped and I know about losing patience as well. Winston had me up at 3 a.m. (he did actually pee), 4:45 a.m., 5:30 a.m. and 6-6:30 a.m. drove me batty because he wants to eat. He speaks like a hound. It's like having a conversation. He yodels and I say no, go back to bed and he just goes into full on bellowing, crying and yipping and back to the yodel. Then I get the wet nose in my eyes or my ears He has not had any more seizures thank goodness and seems a little out of it tonight in a good way. He is tired. Every time we up his dosing he gets a little out of it for a couple of days, even if it is small, but he is calm and eating well and otherwise good.

My vet called me today at work and she spoke to the neurologist about his situation. We are going to slowly up Keppra as we go and was told he could go double dose from where he is now if necessary. The neuro is not a fan of Zonisamide as he has seen side effects on that and said it typically does not work very long. The Bromide may be added eventually if we have to in a very low dose. They do not want to go up on the Pheno anymore at this point as his levels are good and they do not want to see an increase even though we still have some wiggle room, so we'll see how it goes. Again, my vet spent a lot of time talking to me today and I am sure going to miss that relationship. I may have to suck it up and take him a ways to see her. We'll see.

Glad everyone is doing well today!