Seizures more Intense

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jaragr
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:38 am

Our dog has a grand mal seizure about every 13 weeks. Usually they occur in the middle of the night when he is sound asleep. From the time it begins, until he is on his feet stumbling around, it's around 6 minutes. The last 2 times, he had a seizure, then about 6 hours later he had another one. This happened a week ago, and the 2nd one was more intense than the first. The paddling was harder, and he looked as though he was eating the carpet. We hold an ice bag on his back the whole time, and since he is 14 and can't hear much, we don't talk to him during the episodes like we used to. I honestly cannot bear to watch it, and he is SO confused for several hours. This last time he was walking into things, and in to corners. It was different than usual, took a long time to get back to normal. Will this get worse? What does this to to his quality of life? The seizure itself may not be painful for him, but the recovery sure is hard on him.

xxcesarxx
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by xxcesarxx » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:53 pm

He has cluster seizures, they are life threatening. is he on meds yet? If he is not, he will only get worse. They need to be under control asap.

jaragr
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:13 am

He is NOT on meds as they are 3 months apart so far. I have read that vets don't medicate if it doesn't happen more than once a month. He is 14! Hate to put him on drugs. I don't know what to do. Wonder if the meds would make him feel worse than he already does.

GentleJacob's Mom
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by GentleJacob's Mom » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:52 am

Because of his age you may want to look into CBD oil. There are many many brands so I would talk to your vet to get their input about which one would be best. Or you may want to look into rectal Valium to break the clusters. I don't think they have to be on a primary anti seizure drug to use it. That would be another thing to talk to your vet about. He'll still be a little groggy for a day but it's better than him going into status and it could very well keep more than one seizure from happening.

Take Care,
Lynne

jaragr
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Wed Jun 20, 2018 10:35 am

CBD oil is something you get from the vet? This time he went 10 weeks instead of 13. Last night was pretty intense, and took awhile before he could walk without falling down. His back legs are weak anyway. Ugh, it's a hard thing to deal with. Then you can't sleep because you're expecting the 2nd one. He had not been thru a 2nd one by the time I left for work, so it had been 8 hours by then.

GentleJacob's Mom
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by GentleJacob's Mom » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:35 am

I may have to take back my suggestion of CBD oil. I had a talk with our vet yesterday and the results on CBD oil for dogs is all over the map because there are so many brands flooding the market and no one is overseeing it to make sure that what is being sold even has CBD oil in it. There are two brands that have just been approved for human use and it's going to take awhile for it to be approved for use with dogs. Our vet actually did a trial on CBD oil and the results were so mixed. A few dogs responded okay, some not at all.
I do think you should talk to your vet and if they don't know about it you could to get a second opinion. But in the meantime I really would look into rectal Valium, especially since he didn't make it as long between seizures. You don't want those seizures to get out of control. It's very hard to backtrack. Our vet is having good results with her dog with the Purina dog food for seizures so you may want to try that too. She's completely weaned him off from meds.
I know it's so hard to see them go through it and keep your stress level down and not worrying yourself sick that they will have another seizure. Just try to concentrate on the seizure free days as much as you can. You'd have to be made of stone not to be upset and worried when they seize.
Take Care,
Lynne

jaragr
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:54 pm

We are actually meeting with our vet tomorrow. I was just reading about the CBD oil and was wondering how you know which to get! Thought I would check here for more info - thank you!! I didn't know there was a dog food for seizures. We feed him Purina Pro Plan Bright Mind. I am assuming the food your vet uses is prescription?? The CBD oil sounds great if it does what it says - even relieving arthritic pain. I guess we'll find out tomorrow. Thanks again Lynne for the help!

KillysMama
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Location: Cambridge, Ontario
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by KillysMama » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:19 pm

If it helps any, we tried CBD oil with Killian's seizures - we were using a pure CBD formula, and it did absolutely nothing for him. He was a little more relaxed after the seizures, but it did nothing for any kind of control. We use it now on our older non epi-dog for his joints and his dry nose - it has a lot of good results with Jericho, but it did absolutely nothing for Killy's seizures.
Lea and Killian
3 year old Barbet/Shepherd
1st Seizure 5/24/17
Last Seizure 7/16/18
We will not go gently.

jaragr
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Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:52 am

it did absolutely nothing for Killy's seizures

Ugh I hate hearing that! We have our dog on it now; we are in week 3 I think of the oil, 6 weeks since his last seizure. So, we really won't know whether it's helping until his next seizure. We are SO dreading that next one as we always do.

KillysMama
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by KillysMama » Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:06 pm

I'm pretty sure we started Killian at about day 40 and he made it to 62 that round. We were using a 500mg pure oil. What I was hoping for more than anything was a lessening of the violence of his seizures or a cluster break, but that was one of the bad weeks he ended up in hospital at the OVC. I gave up after that since it just didn't seem to do anything for him - but like I said, I like it for my 9 year old non-epi doodle - his back end is getting stiff and the oil really helps him move like a pup again. The actual uses for CBD are incredible, it definitely wasn't a waste of money, just wasn't what I really wanted it for. We're having much better luck, when it comes to control, on potassium bromide - he's just reaching a theraputic plateau in the bromide now - he started 1000mg a day (2ml of 500mg x ml liquid) April 6th - and for a pup that at this time last year was averaging 25 seizures a month - this year we've had only 2 since April 5th. I know I shouldn't hope... but it's hard not to get my hopes up when he's doing so much better. I know we could revert at any given day and it could all fall apart again when the monster changes paths, but right now, we seem to be in a tentative truce with the beast. Our goal to beat this time is 101... if nothing else, Killy sets the standards high.

Another thing we found that has helped is we switched his food. I know Purina has the neuro blend out.. but I did a lot of research into it - while it seems to have recorded decent results, the basic structure of the dog food is pure crap - no different than their regular dog food, just with coconut oil thrown in for the MCT. I found a dry food by a Canadian company called Nutrience - high protein, mid fat, low carb with the additional MCTs - grain free, three protein blend. Both boys love it - and it has a wet food of the same formula with the MCTs added that we use for his pills and liquid bromide. Killy is a baby bird at pill time.. and where bromide time used to be a 20 minute chase around the house and traumatising for everyone, now he pratically bursts at bromide time waiting for his bowl of laced wet food... lol

Best of luck to you guys - I know people who have had incredible luck with CBD and control - I pray that this is the miracle that helps regulate your baby, it just wasn't for us.

And as for us... 15 days and counting.
Lea and Killian
3 year old Barbet/Shepherd
1st Seizure 5/24/17
Last Seizure 7/16/18
We will not go gently.

jaragr
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:09 am

Same here! We bought this CBD as the seizures get so intense, such hard paddling, acting like he's eating the carpet. From the time he collapses, to the time he is on his feet is 6 minutes. He is 14, so once he is on his feet he just falls back down. The CBD is a last resort in hopes they will be shorter, and less intense. I know we don't have much time left with him. It's hard to tell if the CBD is doing any good for other things. He does seem to enjoy his walks and actually trots. It's mentally draining for us - we will never be ready to let him go. I actually hesitate to adopt another dog - Jacks seizures didn't start until 5 years ago, so you never know when it will begin.

KillysMama
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Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by KillysMama » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:29 pm

Killian's seizures started at 1 year, 11 months. 14 years is a good run with any dog - my dogs were all around there:

Daisy - 10 put down due to hip displaysia
Ralph - 13 put down due to stroke
English - 16 put down due to seizure/stroke brought on from old age
Kutya - 13 put down due to a second round with cancer
Coady - 9 - passed on his own from complications due to a misdiagnosis
Maquis - 17 - passed on his own after 2 seizures - an hour and a half before his appointment for euthanasia

My Jericho is now 9 years old and Killian has just turned 3 years old. I'm hoping we have a long way to go... I am absolutely in no way ready to let go of Killian - but we're only a year into this fight.

I hope you get plenty more good days with your guy before you let him go. As to the next dog? Do what feels right - I got Killian 7 days after Maq passed away. My dad waited 2 years after Coady passed away before getting his Shadow. Kutya came home 6 months after Daisy passed, Maquis came home 3 months after Ralph passed... but English broke me. He was my soul boy... gone 18 years now. Jericho came after Kutya, and Killy after Maq... I love my dogs too much not to start over, even when the grief is overwhelming when they leave me. I never want to be without that kind of love in my life.
Lea and Killian
3 year old Barbet/Shepherd
1st Seizure 5/24/17
Last Seizure 7/16/18
We will not go gently.

jaragr
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Thu Aug 02, 2018 6:43 am

I never want to be without that kind of love in my life.

I could not imagine that either. We've taken in many strays, adopted many from shelters. But these seizures? I cannot take it. Watching them go thru that is gut wrenching. Yes Jack being 14 I would say we've done pretty good taking care of him. He's such as awesome dog as are our other two dogs. I can't imagine life without him but I know it won't be long. I am hoping and praying this CBD oil will make a difference with the next seizure. Six weeks so far! My biggest fear is that it will happen when we are working, and he will fall down the dog ramp outside the dog door. He is so disoriented afterwards that he can't stand up for awhile and he paces while running in to everything. It's truly exhausting.

jaragr
Posts: 40
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:34 pm

Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by jaragr » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:59 pm

UPDATE: We have used the hemp oil capsules for about 6 weeks. Jack went 10 weeks between seizures which is about normal. This past Sunday, he had 2 grand mals, 5 hours apart. Both were intense with the hard paddling, excessive drooling and acting like he was eating the carpet. They lasted just as long as before the hemp oil. The main difference was when he got back on his feet, he did not fall over. He still was very disoriented, walking in to corners and odd places. But he did not fall over. So, all in all, I guess this high dollar stuff is worth it. I was just hoping for so much more. I know the hemp oil doesn't stop the seizures, but I was sure hoping they would be less intense and shorter duration.

GentleJacob's Mom
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Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:05 am

Re: Seizures more Intense

Post by GentleJacob's Mom » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:55 am

I wonder if some of the problems with CBD oil is that dogs are metabolizing it too quickly as they can with conventional meds? Jake metabolized Keppra too quickly and we broke with the conventional way of 3x a day dosing to 4x with the same total mgs. per day. I don't know how you're dosing CBD oil but you may want to check with your vet and see if you can give a smaller amount each time and add 1-2 more dosing times. Maybe that would help.

Lynne

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