aussie

Share your story, questions, concerns.

Moderators: Box40Rin, Liz Hansen

Post Reply
mark
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:28 pm

aussie

Post by mark » Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:43 pm

Hi,
I have an aussie, which is epileptic... We first observe him seizuring early May, then the next one in early June and then finally in the late june he collapsed with status Epilepticus....

He was on KBr (2 grains initially) since than... He was seizure free
for about two months, but in september it just went crazy:

Aug 28th, isolated seizure:

September 2nd: Cluster seizure (3 within three hours), PhB dose increased to 3 grains... (Hospitalized)

September 16th: Another cluster seizure... (>4 within 12 hours)
Hospitalized. Added KBr...


Night October 14: several during the night. Gave him extra PhBr (2 more grains in between seizures).

Seemed fine during the day... Gave him 4 PhB grains (instead of usual 3)

Evening: 2 minor seizures. Gave him another 2 grains...

I am afraid it is going to damage his liver, but I don't see what else i could do at this point. Vet refused to give us valium...

I am going to take him to the vet tomorrow, but I was wondering
if anyone here had similar experience (e.g. started with phB then KBr, and both did not help...) and whether other things did or did not work?

thanks,

mark

suejacksoncarr
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 2:02 am
Location: London

Post by suejacksoncarr » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:59 am

Hi Mark,

PB is kind of instant, only stays in the bloodstream for 12 hours I believe, KBR takes a fairly long time to build up in the body, and the combination has to be right for each individual dog.

KBR is kinder on the body, so if they can decrease PB and increase KBR thats the way to go.

I have found from Scholtz though that the process in getting the dosages right is far from instant, it does take quite a while.

Vallium does help, and I don't understand why the Vet will not give it to you, also have you read about ice packs, which are fairly effective in lessening clusters as they lower the temperature.

You need to watch out for when the more knowledgable members of this forum reply to you - I'm not an expert, but I wish you really well.

Sue
Scholtz - German Shepherd
10th June, 2004 to 9th March, 2007

snozzel
Posts: 59
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:26 pm
Location: hong kong

Post by snozzel » Mon Oct 16, 2006 3:37 am

Hi Mark
Sorry you and your dog is going through this. I don't understand why your vet refuses to give valium if the dog is clustering and has been hospitalised. The valium, given rectally, can help you manage when your dog goes into clusters. Sounds like you need a new vet :-) Also, it's not clear whether you're giving PB on a regular basis (like Sue says, every 12 hours). My dog's been on PB for many years and his liver's fine - it depends on the dog. And yes, KBr will take a few months to take effect so you'll need to bear with it to see its effects. Do lots of reading on the subject and if you can't find a new vet sounds like you need to educate him/her in a gentle way!
Take care
Sarah

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:23 am

Hi Mark, sorry you had to join us. I`m new here too. Dylans first cluster was Aug 7. he is still only on pb, but do have the valium.
when I read about the ice packs I thought ya right. but tried it anyway. it works! spend time when you can reading here, I`ve learned alot.
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

mark
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:28 pm

Post by mark » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:13 am

snozzel wrote:Hi Mark
Sorry you and your dog is going through this. I don't understand why your vet refuses to give valium if the dog is clustering and has been hospitalised. The valium, given rectally, can help you manage when your dog goes into clusters. Sounds like you need a new vet :-)
Sarah
Yeah... He is getting it regularly: 3 grains daily (1.5 every 12 hours) He is 50 pound dog... Those were just extra ones which i gave him after seizures... I am not sure if they had helped anything though... I know when he is taking 4.5 he gets really bad diarhea (which is a sign of liver failure) and we are getting there... :(((

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Mon Oct 16, 2006 12:36 pm

Hi Mark,
I'm not sure what the grains are as we use mg in New Zealand. How ever first off get another vet. It is no good refusing to give vallium when it is needed. Many dogs are on PB only and have no problems. It's affect on the liver are not as bad as it is made out and with monitoring the blood tests any effects it may have in the years ahead will show up. From what I have learnt here there are many dogs who cannot tolerate KBr.
The PB will take effect more quickly than the KBr but is does take a few weeks. It will not stop the seizures immediately.
How old is your Aussie ?
Have you changed food recently?
Has he had vaccinations recently?
Have you used tick, flea or heartworm treatment lately?
All of these thing can bring on seizures.

Try the ice pack treatment - many who have tried it have said it works really well. The method is on the Guardian Angels site or check postings by itdincor.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Mon Oct 16, 2006 8:59 pm

Hi Mark,
I'm very sorry you have had to join us. Witnessing those first seizures can be very frightening and most of us weren't really sure what was happening at the time. I also have an aussie (suppose to be "mini" but weighs 46 lbs.) and he is a real sweetie. He had just turned one when he had his first seizure and we have been dealing with this for 17 months now. One thing I would like to suggest is keep a journal. Write down times, lengths of seizure, what they are like, anything and everything you can think of to help your vet and you remember what happened. Read, and read some more, very important. This site as well as the following all offer very good information http://www.canine-epilepsy.com and http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com. If your dog has been diagnosed with idopathic epilepsy, no known cause, tell yourself this is not a death sentence, and many, many dogs go on to live fairly normal lives. Once diagnosed, realize that your dog will continue to have seizures, and more than likely they will not go away, although we all at one time have prayed we would be lucky and this was just a once or twice episode. What most of us have come to accept is-we have an epileptic dog who is going to continue to have seizures. What we are all striving for now is good control. Pb (phenobarbital) is normally the drug of choice as it gets into their systems faster and is cheap. It takes around 2 weeks before the PB is built up in their system and clumsiness and uncoordination are common. A lot of our dogs are on a combination of drugs with the second normally offered KBr (potassium bromide) which can take up to 4 months to reach good levels. Pb may at some point and time cause liver problems, but with close monitoring of blood work (most recommend every 6 months on testing) we do every 3 just to be on the safe side, the side effects can be caught in time. Another thing to remember is what works for one, may not work for another. This site will allow you to learn and form a bond with others who understand what you and your pet are going thru. Most of us have found, you can talk to friends and family, but until they have actually witnessed what we live with, they truly don't understand the full extend of our feelings and concerns. We will try to help you to the best of our knowledge, based on our experiences. As others have stated, you may need to seek another opinion if your not sure your vet can help you. Some vets just aren't as up to date or understand how to handle epileptic pets. Please keep us posted and ask as many questions as you like, we are all here for one another.
Welcome and best wishes,
Debbie
Casey epi since 05/10/05 (seizure free 56 days, our longest time yet!!!) and Callie his non epi sister.

mark
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 9:28 pm

Post by mark » Tue Oct 17, 2006 11:06 am

thank you very much for all the replies and support! We are doing more or less fine now. And we haven't have any seizures since sunday night.

We've got a prescription for valium too...

I had a random question for those of you who use PB and who are in US. My PB is supposed to be 1 grain each (e.g. 68.8 mg).However it has WW 455 written on each tablet, I wonder if 455 means something (e.g. 45.5 mg?) or not.

mark

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:28 pm

You could check with your pharmacy abut what it means.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Tue Oct 17, 2006 3:38 pm

the bottel your vet gave you doesn`t say what it is? mine says97.5mg and have 5014 stamped on the pill.Dylan gets 2 and a half a day
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

Post Reply