Glad I found CEN!

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Morgan1219
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:49 pm

Glad I found CEN!

Post by Morgan1219 » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:10 pm

Hello Everyone,

I am so excited I found this website and have learned so much from it so far. I have done my best to read through most of the posts and I now have a list of questions for my vet such as whether or not I should start my dog on milk thistle or if changing her diet would be beneficial. It is also nice to know that many of the side effects of the medication and seizures is typical and can be expected. Anyway, here is my story:

Morgan is a 3.5 year old shepherd mix. Her seizures started back in May of 2006. She had one in May, one in July, one in December, and one in February which only lasted maybe 20 seconds and was only kind of a shivering episode. I found those to be so scary then and now I would so anything for her to have simple seizures like that again. It wasn't until the end of March 2007 that her seizures became more severe. It was 11:30 p.m. when she had a full grand mal seizure which scared me to death. Then at 6:00 a.m. she had another and then another at 11:00 a.m. All three lasted around 3 minutes. Our vet fit us in early then our scheduled appointment because of the reaccuring seizures. She was injected with valium and we started her on Pb. That night she had 4 more seizures and we had her at the emergency vet so they could get a loading dose of Pb in her.

Morgan is now on Pb and Potasium bromide. Her seizures don't seem to follow a pattern. She usually goes at least 2 weeks between seizures but when she does have them she is prone to clusters.

What I am struggling with now is the side effects of the medication. She just isn't herself anymore. She doesn't have much energy and doesn't play with her toys as often. She has gained weight due the medication, pants a lot, and doesn't sleep through the night anymore.

I have one question as of now which I would love some feedback on. I haven't read any posts about incontinence. Ever since Morgans first grand mal seizure which occured the end of this past March she has suffered from incontinence and now takes Proin to help with bladder control. Before we started her on Proin she would be sleeping and wake up to a puddle under her almost at least once every day. Since she has been on Proin it has lessened but hasn't ended completly yet. Usually at least a few times a week she will leave little puddles mostly during the night. It is frustrating because we now have wet pads everywhere she lays and are constantly doing laundry. I also feel bad for her because she is unaware when she has an accident and feels bad after it happens.

Our vet is unsure whether or not the incontinece is related to the seizures, a side effect of the medication, or totaly unrelated. Our vet also wonders if when sometimes when she leaves unuasually large puddles if it is a sign of some kind of seizure.

I was wondering if anyone had any insight on this issue?

Thanks!
Lauren

3 Year Old Morgan : Sheperd Mix

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:41 pm

Hi Lauren and Morgan and welcome to our site.
I haven't heard of anyone experiencing incontinence with their dogs apart from when they are having a seizure.
Has the vet checked for a urinary tract infection or kidney problems ?
The side affects from the medication will improve but by being on KBr she will need a greater amount of water and therefore far more toileting.
What other sort of blood tests has the vet carried out ?
Have you ruled out hypothyroidism ? (see Jean Dodds ref epi-guardian angels site for testing info) This is the best test you can get done as she compares with the same breed for results. If your vet is / has done this test make sure he did a D8T 6 panel for correct results.
You do not say where you are from - but if north of the equator do not expect too much energy from your dog in the summer heat as this may make the seizures worse. Keep Morgan as cool as you can.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Morgan1219
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:49 pm

Post by Morgan1219 » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:19 am

Thanks for the welcome! Morgan has been checked for a urinary infection which was negative. I don't beleive the vet checked for kidney problems which I will mention at Morgan's next appointment. I did some reading on the epi-guardian angels site about hypothyroidism. The only syptoms of hypothyroidism she has is the incontinence and seizures. But that is definetly enough to make a vet appointment to make sure that's not the case. I know the vet did a blood analysis and said everything looked normal but I'm not sure if the vet specificaly looked for hypothyroidism.

Thanks for the suggestions and I'll let you know what the vet says after the tests!

P.S. We live in Michigan where we do get some hot days. Morgan has long black fur so in the summer she enjoys staying inside!
Lauren

3 Year Old Morgan : Sheperd Mix

Finndog
Posts: 739
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:07 pm
Location: NJ
Contact:

Post by Finndog » Fri Jul 13, 2007 11:39 am

Very sorry to hear. The heat is very hard on the dogs on AED's. I alsways have the AC on with ceiling fans. Some nights he still wakes up panting heavilly. I would think that after several months your dog will agjust to some point. You have to give it some time though. I was ready to call it quits on Finn last August-September, he was so bad. We switched around his meds with the help of my friends here and; well, he's 7.5 months without a seizure. He's not normal and I'm sure he will have another sometime but the good days far outweigh the bad.
Finn, Irish setter
First Seizure 2/2/05
Last Seizure, 10/27/06
Lost my boy on 12/10/08

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:56 pm

Dylan had an increase in need, but no lose of controll. he only ever pooped during a seizure 1 time.but sence we have stopped messen with the meds and have been sence april on the same dose, he has only had couple pees in the house and that was when I got tied up and wasn`t home on time
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

Carolyn
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:08 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Carolyn » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:05 pm

Hi Lauren, Kiya is about the same age, our problem was (is) behavior (thanks to the monster). I can not trust her overnight, I keep her gated off next to my bed (I'll hear if she has one) At first we thought she was "marking", it was always the same spot. As a baby she was good as gold no accidents in the house. Maybe its not a medical condition, sometimes Kiya looks so spaced out. I dont restrict her water. Since its so hot you might want to try her with a kiddie pool SUPERVISED of course. Having some fun is always good for everyone.
Carolyn
Kiya 11yr Shiloh Shepherd
PB 60mg am 90mg pm, 1teas kbr 1200mg, turmeric paste
1000mg milkthistle bid
First seizure 11/27/05
Last seizure 5/21/15

Carolyn
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:08 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Carolyn » Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:12 pm

Lauren, even if you don't know what your looking at get a copy of all your test results. You will learn the terms & such. We all have had to get our vets past the "everything is normal" phrase NOT ACCEPTABLE. Knowing actual levels & record keeping is very important.
Carolyn
Kiya 11yr Shiloh Shepherd
PB 60mg am 90mg pm, 1teas kbr 1200mg, turmeric paste
1000mg milkthistle bid
First seizure 11/27/05
Last seizure 5/21/15

High_Voltage_Head
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by High_Voltage_Head » Sat Jul 14, 2007 10:20 pm

Hi Lauren, have you noticed that Morgan drinks a lot more water since being on the drugs? Jackson went through a period of time where he'd just pee in the house if I didn't let him out every 2 hours. Drove me nuts because he had never done that before. I couldn't find it in my journal but i think it was soon after an increase in one of the drugs and it lasted maybe a month or two. During this same time he would wake me up at night to go out once or twice which also had never happened before. I wouldn't call what he had incontinence but i could imagine that Morgan's problem is essentially the same thing. With 2 dogs i can't keep track of how much water Jackson drinks but i know it has lessened somewhat over time, and the peeing problem disappeared...but he still has to go out very often during the day.

Just looking through my seizure journal i found things i wrote in February that i had completely forgotten....like how one day i noted he was frisky and very energized for the first time in a year! It's weird because he's been energized ever since then and i forgot that he hadn't been for a long time. I can't emphasize enough how important it is to keep a journal.

It would help if you told us what Morgan's dosages of drugs are and when you started the KBr. Also her weight. I'm thinking you just need to give it more time and the side effects should lessen. And hopefully the drugs will start working better than it sounds like they're working right now.
Me: Kurt
Dog: Jackson the 6 y.o. Standard Poodle 55lbs
died March '08

Morgan1219
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jul 08, 2007 6:49 pm

Post by Morgan1219 » Sun Jul 15, 2007 1:15 pm

Yes, Mogan does drink A LOT more water. I wish her problem was as simple as letting her out more, but unfortunatly its not. We know it is incontinence because she will be in a dead sleep or just laying down and will get up and her whole back end and floor will be soaked and she doesn't even realize it. The Proin medication helps a lot, but it hasn't cured her of her incontinence.

Morgan is now 73 pounds and before she started her medication she was 65 pounds. Morgan takes 145.8 MG of Phenobarbital twice a day which she has been on since April (although she started at a lower dose and the last increase was the begining of June). Morgan started taking 450 MG of Potassium Bromide twice a day about 4 weeks ago. I am hoping the side effects will begin to lessen because I don't want to have to up her dosage anymore.

Also I will for sure get a copy of her blood work next vet appointment along with getting her tested for hypothyroidism. I'm trying really hard to understand all the vets terminology and issues realated to seizures.

Thanks for all the feedback!
Lauren

3 Year Old Morgan : Sheperd Mix

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:26 pm

it is a very hard thing to understand and try and make sence out of.
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:39 pm

Hi Lauren and Welcome to the group,
I know when Casey first started on PB and then later KBr we were up two or three times a night for around 3 months. It gradually got better and he now sleeps thru the night but he still drinks water like there is no tomorrow. One thing I really have to watch for though, for the next two or three days after he has really bad seizures, he will walk right in front of me and if he has to pee, it's like he has no understanding that we go outside. He will start to go right in front of me and he has been house broken since a pup, so he is very confused for a few days. I really feel bad for him because I know he wouldn't do this under normal circumstances. Hope Morgan is doing ok and please don't hesitate to ask questions. We will try to help the best we can.
Debbie
Angel Casey
05/03/04-10/24/07
and his non epi sister Callie

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