KBR weakness side effect - how bad?

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Jeff-n-Sailor
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Kalama, WA

KBR weakness side effect - how bad?

Post by Jeff-n-Sailor » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:58 pm

Hi Everybody, Haven't posted in a while. Sailor is doing better now with KBR alone for the last 6 months. (4.4 ml twice a day) His liver test is back to normal. His seizures are now spaced about 5-6 weeks apart. I just had his KBR tested and its mid-range. He'll be seeing the neurologist next week.

Sailor has bad weakness in his hind end - especially on the right side. It seemed to get worse in the last 2 or 3 weeks.

He has a very hard time getting onto his feet, especially on a slippery floor like the kitchen. Once he's up, he limps for a short time and then seems to walk normally but also falls easily where his legs just collapse. This happens often when playing. He can climb stairs but very slowly.

I've read lots of posts about the weakness issue but I'm wondering how bad it actually is for those that have the problem.

If you've experienced the issue with your dog, please describe how severe it was and also if it improved over time. In Sailors case it has gotten progressively worse, now to the point quality of life is being impacted.


Thanks
Jeff-n-Sailor

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:03 pm

I can't recall how old Sailor is, could it be old age contributing to the problem? My boy still darts around like nobody's business, but I can tell the difference between him and my other dog that is close in age. He can slip and fall when running at full tilt, but otherwise gets around great. MY neuro asked me if MK could still walk, being that his meds are high! :) I guess being an Irish setter has its advantages.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Thu Nov 08, 2007 2:23 pm

Dylan has been on kbr for just over a year, he does have a harder time getting up after he has been sleeping awhile, he doesn`t run as fast, our sheltie can flat outrun him now, but he still out corners her, nor is he as fast up or down the steps. its alittle tough watching our speeddemon being slowed down, but much better then watching him seize.he is about 95% our Dilly, he is happy and still has to play almost non stop. so we take what we can get.
fingers crossed you can get a longer span between in time.
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

Tux1
Posts: 103
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2007 9:39 am
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Post by Tux1 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:32 am

Tux has really bad weakness in his rear legs. It breaks our hearts to see him have to position himself just right ot be able to lift his rear half up off the floor and then our house is mostly all tile or Wood floors and when he gets to herding his sister around the house he slips and falls alot. But the energy is there and he continues to improve vastly every month and the more he plays and goes on good long walks you can see the strength is still there. But I agree when he has been sleeping for awhile its really hard for him to get that back half up and going.
Tux 4 year old Border Collie (epi)
Alqa 4 y/o sister Border Collie
1st Seizure 02/18/2007
RIP Tux 01.01.10

Jeff-n-Sailor
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Kalama, WA

Post by Jeff-n-Sailor » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:45 am

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like Sailor isn't alone with this weakness thing. We see the neurologist tomorrow. I'm going to press for some kind of improvement. Lying around 23 hrs/day because you can't get up is no life.

I'll post about the outcome afterward.

Jeff

Jeff-n-Sailor
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 9:18 am
Location: Kalama, WA

Cost for Keppra?

Post by Jeff-n-Sailor » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:24 am

Sailor's neuro mentioned Keppra as a possible medication as Sailor is having very bad mobility issues with kBr. (good seizure control though with only 1 mild seizure in last 10 weeks)

For those using Keppra - what are you paying for it? Neuro thought about US$3. per day. Best price I could find online is US$180. for 500mg x 100 tablets.

Thanks
Jeff

High_Voltage_Head
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by High_Voltage_Head » Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:46 pm

I get it at Walgreens, 500mg, 90 pills for $265. I think i've seen online Canadian pharms at about half that price for generic.
Me: Kurt
Dog: Jackson the 6 y.o. Standard Poodle 55lbs
died March '08

Ron-n-Mattie
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:29 am
Location: North Dakota

Post by Ron-n-Mattie » Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:07 am

Mattie is currently on 2 gr of Pheno twice a day & 900 mg of Kbr twice a day. She started on the Kbr early last summer and we have noticed some weakness, but mostly her losing some coordination. She will be 2 in May '08 and we keep her active. She did basic agility last fall and her favorite thing is to fetch. Every time we take her outside we throw a toy or ball and she has to find it and fetch it back to us. It's almost comical when she chases a tennis ball and then falls and slides on the ground as she catches up and tries to pick it up. I know it's not really funny but she has so much fun and it doesn't hardly slow her down.

We are working with her to not bring the "cadaver balls" back to us as she is supposed to find it and then sit until we catch up to her. (cadaver ball is a tennis ball stored in an airtight container with cadaver scent and used to keep her excited about working) I know, us HRD Folks (human remains detection) are kinda weird.

For what it's worth, I've talked to search & rescue folks that had dogs with seizures and some of them worked their dogs for many years and they never seized while working. It could be the ones I didn't talk to had different results. Maybe it's keeping their mind and bodies active?
[color=red]Ron & Helen's House 'O' Hounds[/color]

Trooper & Joker, the bloodhounds
[u]Mattie, the yellow lab (no longer epi) [i]No more meds[/i][/u]
Dotsie, the mini-dachshund
Flash, the basset
Ziva, the corgi

richmauer
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:21 am
Location: Morristown, NJ

Post by richmauer » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:24 am

Jeff.
My Peanut was having some "arthritic" like symptoms and I started her on an over the counter supplement called Synovi G3. Its a mix of the same supplements that people with arthritis use. Well, it was like a miracle!
It might be worth a try. It's available online at reasonable prices.
Richard
Precious Peanut in doggie heaven 6/25/10 - 10 years old
English Cocker female 10 y/o "Sundae"
Shiatzu Male 10 y/o "Casey"

Ron-n-Mattie
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:29 am
Location: North Dakota

Post by Ron-n-Mattie » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:33 am

When one of our bloodhounds had hip problems due to age, etc. we used MicroLactin and were able to reduce the amount of Rimadyl. I don't know if is the same thing we are dealing with here, but it was fairly inexpensive and easier on their overall health.
[color=red]Ron & Helen's House 'O' Hounds[/color]

Trooper & Joker, the bloodhounds
[u]Mattie, the yellow lab (no longer epi) [i]No more meds[/i][/u]
Dotsie, the mini-dachshund
Flash, the basset
Ziva, the corgi

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Post by adajadesmom » Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:38 pm

Right now, my Ada is having horrible mobility issues. To the point, we're again thinking about having her put to sleep. I have to pick her up off the floor for her to walk and it's killing my back. I've used a towel, but it still hurts my back.
We had upped her Kbr a while back and it didn't seem to be so bad for a while after. I'm wondering if her seizures are causing the poor mobility. I'm waiting for the vet to call to see what he thinks. I'm about broke and can't afford much more for tests. In 4 months, we have close to $2,000 into her.
On Monday, we lowered her PB by half a grain and it doesn't seem to have helped much. She's almost 2, so age isn't the issue.
She went 11 days without a seizure a while ago, then 5 days and now she's back to having them 2 days free, then a day or two in a row of seizures.
I hope Sailor's mobility continues to improve and you have better luck than we're having.

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Wed Jan 16, 2008 4:29 pm

It seems a lot of mobilty problems are due to the KBr. Is there a possibility that the PB can stay the same and lower the KBr.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:59 pm

A couple of days isn't enough, give it more time. Adajade might be one of those dogs that doesn't tolerate the KBr. I agree with Jane, back off on the KBr and see what happens.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Post by adajadesmom » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:52 am

I'll mention that to the vet today. That is something I've thought about. I thought that 750 mg's twice a day for a 75 pound dog seemed kind of low compared to others though.

Ron-n-Mattie
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 10:29 am
Location: North Dakota

Post by Ron-n-Mattie » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:18 am

Using the formulas from here and the Guardian-Angel site I calculated the amounts of Pheno & Kbr for Mattie as it seemed the vet was giving too much. We were mostly concerned about the loss of coordination that was appearing. When I mentioned this to our vet she looked at me like she wanted to take my internet away :-) and then said "Trust me!" & then after the blood tests in December she was right on. Who knows? Some of the coordination came back after awhile and we've learned to live with it. Wish we had better answers for Ada.

Mattie is about the same weight as ada - 65 to 70 # and she is on 2 gr Pheno twice a day & 900 mg Kbr twice a day but she is very active.
[color=red]Ron & Helen's House 'O' Hounds[/color]

Trooper & Joker, the bloodhounds
[u]Mattie, the yellow lab (no longer epi) [i]No more meds[/i][/u]
Dotsie, the mini-dachshund
Flash, the basset
Ziva, the corgi

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