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Black lab puppy - please help!!!

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:06 am
by peacelovegoo
Hey I'm new to seizures in dogs. But about 9 months ago I got my black lab from my friend. His father breeds them and said I could have one. He's a pure breed and I got him at three weeks old so he is nearly 10 months old now. He's very well trained and would never bite a human, even when he is playing vigorously the most he will come to is a light chewing like hes trying to taste your hand but not biting. He's been my dog and my responsibility since we got him and I have raised him since three weeks. He had his first set of shots then his second set and a blood test for heart worms a few months ago. On the 29th I was on the computer at 1:30 in the morning and Leo was in his crate sleeping about 10 feet behind me. He woke up and started making this puking noise. I thought he would be fine since every time he gets into something bad he sometimes pukes a little bit. He always cleans up after himself though, so I though I had nothing to worry about.

It was dark in the room and about 20 seconds after he started making that noise he laid down flat and started shaking vigorously. I thought he was choking or something. I was very scared and yelled for my dad 3 times as I was opening the crate and trying to drag him out of it, I thought I was watching Leo die. On the third scream my dad was down the stairs and helping me pull him out. I turned on the light and then tried to get his collar off. Keep in mind I thought he was choking. The second I got his collar off he came to and bit me. He was shaking for 30-45 seconds. Broke the skin on my right thumb, wasn't too bad so I wasn't worried about it. He seemed to be fine and was laying on the ground near my dad and trying to look around. He started growling at me and got to his feet(He has never growled at me,not once.) I backed up and so did my dad. He started barking and growling and drule started coming out of his mouth. His whole personality changed, he didn't respond to any commands. It was like he had forgotten who he was and who we were and thought we were trying to kill him. He backed up about 10 feet and loss control of his bladder. He was barking at my dad now and backed up to the gate near the entrance to the room. He was barking and growling still. I was very frightened, so me and my dad went away from him to the other room and put another gate up to separate him from us. (The whole time his tale was between his legs and he was very low to the floor.) He barked for about 10 minutes and then we gave him a treat to try to snap him out of it. Right after he finished the treat he started coming towards us and started wagging his tale a bit. It looked like he just came out of a trance and had no idea what just happened. He was still very low to the ground and looked very frightened. I put him outside to see if he needed to go, then I gave him food and water and put him back in his crate. He was doing fine and was the old Leo again. So a went back on the computer to try to figure out what just happened and found this web site. I learned what to do next time this may happen and registered for an account.

At 2 o'clock in the morning today, about an hour ago. I was sleeping on the couch and Leo was sleeping in his crate. I woke up to him shaking very violently and opened the crate door, his tongue was outside his mouth and his nose was up against the crate wall as he was wiggling around. I went into the kitchen and tried to wait it out. It lasted about 45 seconds and then I heard him breathing normally again. I waited another 5 minutes and then clapped my hands together and called for him. He came to the threshold of the next room until I was in his line of sight. He had drule hanging from his mouth and looked like he had a little idea of what was going on. I didn't want to alarm him and send him into a aggressive state again. I pulled a treat out of the bag and slid it to him. He ate it and about 15 seconds later he walked slowly towards me and started to wag his tale. I put him outside and then gave him some water then put him back in his crate and he went to bed.

Please help, I'm still new to this seizure thing, and very worried about my puppy. Leo is very close to me. Both times he seized it was in his crate while he was sleeping. The shaking always stops in less than a minute. and then he comes to. And both times after I gave him a treat he snapped out of his aggressive-like state. The second time I don't think he lost any bladder or bowl control. The seizures were 6 days apart, and I don't know whats causing them. I need to take him to the vet. Does anyone have any other thoughts on what I should do?

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 6:32 am
by MK's mom
HI Peace and Welcome!!!

It sounds to me that it WAS seizures your pup was having and you ought to take him to the vet as you have planned to do.

My boy's first seizure left him acting strange also. He didn't try to bite me, but he was afraid of me and my other dog and acted like he didn't know us. That was the first time and he's never acted like that again. They don't know what has just happened to them and we should never get near their mouths when they seize because we could get bitten and the dog wouldn't realize that they had bitten us.

Your boy sounds a tad young to start seizing, but they DO start around that age at times. There is a great site called Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels and they have a lot of uselful information there. There's a link that gives different ages of dogs when they start seizing and probably causes.

Did you boy have his vaccines just before his first seizure? Your vet should want to do a full thyroid panel before he gives you medications.

Another thing, why was the pup taken away from his mother at such a young age? Three weeks is way too young, he needs the milk from his mother at that stage. I'm sure this didn't cause his seizures, it's just too early to separate puppies from their mother.


Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 12:49 pm
by skrpio
I would get back to your friends father "the breeder" and I use that term lightly as any reputable breeder would NEVER let a pup go at 3 weeks.
I doubt though if he would say if any of his dogs or pups had had seizures but he needs to know not to repeat this particular combination of dogs.
Did the vaccinations get given at the right age or were they early dur to the fact he was parted so young. Another contributing factor may be that he did not get his mothers milk for long enough to be able to build up an immune system. Pups need at least 6 weeks of mothers milk before weaning is even started. What food did you put this pup on when you got him?

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:42 pm
by peacelovegoo
I'm sorry but I meant to say 8 weeks, I don't know where I got the three from. I slowly converted him to aims smart puppy food after I got him and gave him the recommended amount each serving. He had his first vaccinations before 8 weeks before I got him. And if anything, his second set was late. he had his rabies vaccination and heart worm test about 2-3 months ago. After his second set the vet told me to switch him to adult food because he weighed 75 pounds at 7 months. Anyways. He just had a another seizure. Less than 10 minutes ago. This time he was laying on my lap after he woke up from a nap and he looked like he was trying to vomit for 20 seconds, I looked in his mouth to see if there was anything in his mouth. It was clear but I could see foam starting to form. He collapsed on the ground and then started to seize. He was in the middle of the room so me and my brother backed up and waited it out. When he got to his feet he didn't have any signs of aggression. And came right up to me and started wagging his tale. This seizure was 12.5 hours apart from his last one and his recovery time gets shorter and shorter with each seizure. This one was also less than a minute. Its his third one, as a said before this time he had no signs of aggression. I have scheduled an appointment to the vet, and hope we can figure things out.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:16 pm
by MK's mom
I hope your appointment with the vet is soon, he's clustering (more than 1 seizure in a 24 hour period) and will probably have to go on medication unless the vet decides that his seizures are secondary to another problem.

Clustering is nothing to wait around for. I'm not trying to scare you, it's just a fact of this disorder.


Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:06 pm
by richmauer
As the others said, keep your hands away from his mouth! I made the mistake once and was bitten very hard on the hand. Also, most of us try to soothe our dogs during and after the seizure, so you might want to rub him and speak to him to calm him. He may not hear or feel you, but it will also relax you. Start reading as much as you can here and the Angels site. Also start to keep a diary of the seizures, when, how many, how long and any observation notes you may have.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:22 pm
by skrpio
I am glad that you got him at 8 weeks as maybe you could tell from my previous posting I was a bit &*$#@^ off.
Have you noticed any correlation between the heartworm treatment and the seizures? Sometime heartworm/ tick/flea treatmets can cause seizures. After reading about your Heartz products I would be very reluctant to use them at all.
Unless the vet can find a secondary cause he may put him on PB first. Make sure the vet gives him a loading dose to get the theraputic levels up quickly. Usually they go onto PB (Phenolbarbitol) first and then maybe onto KBr (Potassium Bromide). PB gets to theraputic levels faster than KBr.
As Vivian said - he is clustering and needs to see the vet ASAP.

Make sure you keep him cool particularly his head. Read up about the ice pack treatment on Epi-Guardian angels site - it may help.

Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:59 pm
by peacelovegoo
The appointment for the vet is tomorrow. and to answer to the other post, he is not on any heartworm medication,he only had the heartworm blood test. My mom found a empty plastic shell of dayquil that he may have gotten into. the vet researched it and told us there was ingredients in it that could cause seizure. but I found this unlikely since his first seizure was 7 days ago(when the dayquil was found). and he just had 2 more in the last 24 hours. I hope it is an environmental problem and not something more serious with him. My father said he saw him chewing on some wood the other day, that he thinks was treated with pesticides. so thats not good. I'm watching him very closely to make sure he doesn't get into anything. We will soon find out tomorrow what is happening during his tests at the vet. The vet says there going to do blood test and possibly x-rays. I'm just a high school student with a minimum wage job. I've been saving up to get him fixed for 3 months now,and just got enough money. My parents have to pay an extra 3000 dollars for some tax mistake,so they're broke. I just hope I can afford everything.

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:08 pm
by skrpio
If his first seizure was the day the dayquil was found I would suspect that is the cause of the problem. These things can cause more than one seizure depending on how much was injested. Some dogs have been known to seize just but sniffing the container.
I suggest you tell this to the vet and aslo wash his legs and paws as he may have got some of it there and he is still licking it off.

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 3:09 am
by jakes_mummy
i hope your little doggie is ok and you got him sorted out at the vets hugs

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 2:32 am
by peacelovegoo
I took him to the vet a week ago and the vet did a blood test and urinalysis...both test came up clean..she said he was healthy. And he hasn't had any signs of a seizure hopefully he'll never have one again..he is very young to already have epilepsy. The vet and I agreed that it must have been an environmental source that was causing the seizures..he does get into a lot of things..even if we think they are out of his reach. He's been known to chew up chap stick and AA Batteries but never ate them. Or it could be something outside that he got into. He seems to be fine that way and god willing he'll never have any seizures again.

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:16 am
by adajadesmom
Good luck! I hope that's the end of the seizures for him too!