10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

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Nero's mum
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:05 am

10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Nero's mum » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:36 am

We picked Nero up on Friday 9 April 2010 from a reputable breeder who had done all by the book in her breeding programme. Nero is a black Newfoundland puppy. He spent the first few days at home like any other puppy - exploring, playing, having fun with my other 2 dogs. We put Nero to bed on Wednesday night and we could have never imagined what would happen the following day. He woke up on Thursday morning and soon after having breakfast he started salivating copiously and lost control of both bladder and bowels while sitting on the floor. At first I thought some bits of food might have got stuck in his throat. But this happened again after his mid-morning feed. I called the vet straight away and I was told that I was possibly feeding him too much and perhaps he was trying to vomit. In any case, I was told there was no reason to rush him to them - it was more sensible to just stop feeding him until the evening and then give him half his dose of food. However, Nero had more episode, 3 to be precise, between 11:30 and 4ish so I called the vet again saying that it was getting worse and that the puppy was now actually shaking, foaming and losing control of his functions and being very confused afterwards. They told me to give him a little bit of food, see how it went and if he didn't improve to take him in in the morning. However, after 2 more episodes (it was sooo frightening, each time I thought he was going to die!) we decided to take him to the night vet. They were marvellous - they did all they could and very quickly (blood tests, x-rays - all clear), they kept him in for the night and in the morning they referred him to the Royal Veterinary College. He had had 3 more episodes while there. They gave me some diazepam tubes in case he seizured during the journey, which he did. The neurologists at the College did an ultrasound, an MRI and blood tests - all clear. Physically Nero seems to be great, still, he has cluster seizures. As far as I can say, he hasn't had any trauma nor ingested anything toxic. He had a few more seizures at the hospital so they decided to put him on medications and started giving him loading doses of potassium bromide. He hasn't had any more seizures since he started the treatment on Friday evening.
We are quite devastated - how can such a young, and apparently healthy, puppy start having cluster seizures all of a sudden? What is going to happen to him? How are we going to care for him? I have no experience whatsoever of epilepsy and I think all the information I'm reading is making me dizzy and makes me woder how I'm going to keep all the different variables under control. He's a lovely puppy and it was heartbreaking to see him like that and almost lifeless due to all the seizures being so close. We are going to pick him up later so I will see what the neurologist says. If you have any suggestions of what questions would be best to ask, please let me know.
Jeni and Nero x

Mandypop
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Location: London, UK

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Mandypop » Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:20 am

Hello Jeni

So sorry to hear about Nero.

Has Nero recently had any vaccinations, flea treatment, wormers? If you search through this Forum, you will find quite a few dogs have started seizures after vaccinations/flea treatments etc. Also, have you used any chemical cleaning agents around the house? There are many different triggers for epilepsy.

It's a mystery why some pups start seizing, hopefully the Potassium Bromide will keep them under control. It will get easier in time, but for now it's understanibly a very worrying time for you, we have all been there and know what you are going through.

I'm sure other Forum members will also reply.

Good luck with Nero and please keep us updated.

Mandy
Poppy - 9 year old whippet/greyhound (20 kg)

First seizure- 17th Oct 2006
Last seizure - 17th Nov 2009

90mg Pb twice daily
320mg KBr daily

Gentle Jacob's mom
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Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:51 am

Hi Jeni

I'm really sorry to hear that you're going through this horror with your puppy. The only other thing I would suggest is to take a hard look at the food he's eating. There's a lot of information here about food and canine epilepsy. Unfortunately more times than not, it's epilepsy.
I hope you get to the bottom of this, and that the meds keep your puppy's seizures under control.
Take Care,
Linda

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by MK's mom » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:01 pm

Has he been checked for a liver shunt? This is often the problem in a pup so young.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Nero's mum
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:05 am

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Nero's mum » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:33 am

Hi,
Thanks a lot for your messages. He had vaccinations on the day we picked him up, i.e. 9 April and he started seizuring around 6 days later, i.e. 15 April. I asked the neurologist and he admitted that the two episodes can be linked. However, when I asked what to do about his second set of jabs he said that I need to go ahead as having him immunised is more important than anything else. He said that once he's immunised, we can discuss whether to give him boosters or not. He has been checked for a liver shunt but he's fine.
We picked him up yesterday and thankfully he hasn't had any episodes - he hasn't had any since they started the bromide at the hospital last Friday. Of course, I'm watching his every move and every time he sits up my heart stops! I'm feeding him Arden Grange puppy large breed and when I asked the neurologist whether to keep him on his usual diet he said yes.
He's sitting here now and obviously he's a bit lethargic and unsteady on his legs, but apart from that he looks normal. We are really scared that something can happen to him.
I will keep you posted.
Jeni and Nero x

Gentle Jacob's mom
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Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:58 am

Hi Jeni,
One ingredient that you may want to be wary of is Rosemary, or Rosemary extract. There are some that believe that anything with a potent smell (also cedar), may contribute to seizures. It's hard to find treats and hard food without it because it's used as a preservative.
I'm glad the bromide is working.
Take Care,
Linda

Nero's mum
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:05 am

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Nero's mum » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:21 pm

Hi Linda,
I read something about rosemary on the web and I checked the ingredients of the Arden Grange - it does have rosemary extract as a preservative. I have researched all the best brands sold here in the UK but I cannot find anything without rosemary. Actually, more natural diets seem to use it more (perhaps unsurprisingly). While I was typing he's just been sick - which in a way is a relief as I thought he was having another episode!! I just pray that I can get all the information to be able to help him. He's so young and sweet.
Jeni and Nero x

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:03 pm

Hi Jeni,
I know how overwhelming all of this can be. Everyone here has been through it, and I promise you it will get easier. It took us a long time to find treats for Jake. It seemed like everything had rosemary in it. He eats a raw diet, which is a bit controversial when it comes to epilepsy, but he did so amazingly well after we switched him over, that our vets agreed that it was the best thing for him. Some don't think it's the best thing for epi dogs because they believe that since their immune systems can be challenged because of the disease, the raw diet would impose even more. Jake's been eating it for almost 4 yrs and so far so good. I don't know if you can get Natural Balance products but their sweet potato and venison treats are grain free and rosemary free. Whatever you do check with your vet before you do anything. Just take your time, and it will all settle in.
Good luck and Take Care,
Linda

Apache
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Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long post)

Post by Apache » Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:30 pm

So sorry to hear about Nero,..and so young, too. Epileptic seizures seems to have no boundaries, (age, breed)..from what I've been reading. Don't fret, though. First things first, get the seizures under control. Meaning, finding the right dosage/type of medication for Nero. That could take time, but then, maybe not. We lucked out with Apache.

You'll find a way to deal with it easier with each passing day. Perhaps not witnessing the seizures themselves (hopefully no others do occur), but rather, realizing that one could occur at any given moment. Try and keep a log of everyday activity,...food, (treats) exercise, sleep patterns, unusual behaviour,..etc. It may come in handy in the future should Nero continue to experience more seizures, so that you may be able to ward them off. (If lucky).

With somewhat limited experience, I wish you both the very best. Keep us posted!

Gentle Jacob's Mom,...thanks for that Rosemary tip!

Brian

00dacousin
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Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long pos

Post by 00dacousin » Mon Feb 18, 2013 5:34 am

I know this is an old post but as its showing up on Google I thought it would be worth posting my thoughts still.

If you have a dog that is struggling to keep down food and only eating small portions then it is important to give them a food that isn't bulked out with fillers.
A lot of dog foods are designed to look like good value but you need to feed more. A premium food like Arden Grangehttp://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/pet_food/ ... puppy_food is going to give your puppy the energy and also vitamins and minerals they need in a much smaller portion which hopefully they will be able to keep down. You could also take a look at http://www.zooplus.co.uk/shop/dogs/dry_ ... nior/96242 which is designed specifically for sensitive puppies, only one like this I have come across for puppies.

Some supermarket type dog foods lead to deficiencies of key vitamins and minerals anyway so aren't as good value as they look.

cesullivan
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: 10 weeks old puppy with epilepsy (sorry, it's a long pos

Post by cesullivan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:46 am

In regards to the rosemary the folks over at the Honest Kitchen sent me this link:

http://www.canine-epilepsy.com/herbsforpets.html

3.To avoid confusion over Rosemary being included in this list of herbs that might prove helpful in controlling epilepsy, I asked the authors why oil of Rosemary is contraindicated for an epileptic and Rosemary (the plant) is not .

Here is their reply:-

It's very important to know that the essential oil of rosemary, which represents a concentrated form of a select number of chemical constituents of the plant, is a very different medicine than the whole-plant, or a preparation of the whole plant. In other words, where rosemary essential oil represents only a few parts of rosemary's chemistry, rosemary tincture or tea represents hundreds of parts of its' chemistry. From a herbalist's perspective the essential oil is closer to being a drug than a herbal medicine. "The "whole plant" is always greater than the sum of its parts......."
Cali 4YO female Lab/Chow mix
Cluster Grand Mals
Last Seizure: June 10, 13
Pheno 64MG 2x/day
Kbrovet 1,650MG 1x/day

Foster Dog Jim 3ishYO Lab
Pheno 140MG 2x/day
KBrovet 1,000MG 2x/day
Keppra XR 500MG 2x/day
Zonisamide 200MG 2x/day

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