Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

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cesullivan
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:32 pm

Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by cesullivan » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:02 pm

Foster dog Jim had a ruff morning. 7 Grand Mal seizures in 30 minutes, yes, they were back to back with maybe 90 seconds in between. Last one was in the car on the way to the ER (5am of course). He's home now, didn't have any more. Cuddling me and exhausted from his ordeal.

I have a question on the rectal valium as Cali never was given that. He is an 84 pound lab, how much rectal valium do you all give your cluster pups? They have given me 3 - 2ML syringes and told me I can give him 2 of them once he starts clustering.

Jim's now on:
2,000MG Potassium Bromide (Kbrovet) daily
243MG Pheno daily
400 MG Zonisamide daily
1000 MG Keppra XR daily
2x2ml rectal valium for clusters.
Thanks,
Chris & Cali & Foster Dog Jim & 13 year old Bandit
Cali 4YO female Lab/Chow mix
Cluster Grand Mals
Last Seizure: June 10, 13
Pheno 64MG 2x/day
Kbrovet 1,650MG 1x/day

Foster Dog Jim 3ishYO Lab
Pheno 140MG 2x/day
KBrovet 1,000MG 2x/day
Keppra XR 500MG 2x/day
Zonisamide 200MG 2x/day

Eley's Mom
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Chicago, West Suburbs

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by Eley's Mom » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:31 pm

First off, congrats on how long your dogs have gone!!!

2nd, I would imagine Jim can handle much more than just the 2ml syringes.
I keep 3 syringes preloaded at 2ml for Eley at all times. The most I've given her is 2 syringes (about 20 min apart). Last time I was going to use the third as well, but called the emergency vet and they said that if #1 and #2 didn't touch the cluster, the third wouldn't either.

Eley clusters like that each time... One then right into another with only a minute or two between them (maybe 5 min if we're lucky).

Eley is only 20lbs or so... So that gives you a weight comparison. I wouldn't worry much about giving him too much of the Valium unless he had some sort of reaction to it for some reason.
Diana & Eley
Boston Terrier (23 lbs)
DOB: 11/12/09
First Seizure 2/8/14
Last Seizure 10/9/16
Phenobarbital 48.6mg (morning), 56.7mg p.m. (night)
3 mL Potasium Bromide, once daily
Clorazepate as needed after seizures

cesullivan
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by cesullivan » Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:55 pm

Thanks...I gave Jim the first one and then 10 minutes later gave him the second, then off to the ER.

I was thinking that the dose was on the low side, I think the vet is being cautious, which is okay for now. I'm less than 10 minutes away from the 24 hour ER and they give the rescue group a great discount on ER visits for Jim (he spent a few months there before I started to foster him). She said that she's keeping it low so once I get him in they have room for iv injections of the valium as it works much quicker. But I'm glad to know that in a true emergency, I can load him up.

Thanks again,
Chris
Cali 4YO female Lab/Chow mix
Cluster Grand Mals
Last Seizure: June 10, 13
Pheno 64MG 2x/day
Kbrovet 1,650MG 1x/day

Foster Dog Jim 3ishYO Lab
Pheno 140MG 2x/day
KBrovet 1,000MG 2x/day
Keppra XR 500MG 2x/day
Zonisamide 200MG 2x/day

Eley's Mom
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Chicago, West Suburbs

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by Eley's Mom » Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:13 am

From what the emergency vet had told me, dogs metabolize the rectal Valium very quickly so it doesn't stay in their system very long.

They advised me that when I give Eley one that I should wait 10 minutes before expecting a result. If she continues to seize after 10 minutes then we're ok to give more. Sounds like they told you the same thing.

Even when I gave Eley two doses, they were able to give her an actual injection of Valium via IV without issue.
Diana & Eley
Boston Terrier (23 lbs)
DOB: 11/12/09
First Seizure 2/8/14
Last Seizure 10/9/16
Phenobarbital 48.6mg (morning), 56.7mg p.m. (night)
3 mL Potasium Bromide, once daily
Clorazepate as needed after seizures

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:09 am

Jake weighs about 55 lbs and we give him 1ml immediately and wait 10 minutes and give him another 1ml. Then as soon as he is able to lick we give him 1- 64.8 tablet of Pb and 1 Clorazepate. Some here use a tablet Valium protocol but we haven't done that yet. Jake used to cluster and so far the Clorazepate has kept them under control. Knock on wood. I would be cautious about storing the rectal valium in a syringe before a seizure. From what we've been told it looses it's potency if you do that. To keep it at full potency it needs to be stored in a dark colored bottle. I really do have to agree with that because when Jake first started on it we would buy it in syringes. Then I found a nearby compounding pharmacy that put it in a dark brown dispensing bottle. The change in how well it worked was dramatic. Plus it was lot less expensive. I know that in the stress of the onset of a seizure it can be hard to pull it up into the syringe. I used to be a mess, and now I can do it in my sleep.
Is there any time in between seizures that your dogs can eat or lick? We put Jake's meds in vanilla ice cream and he usually sort of comes out of his post ictal long enough for him to lick up the ice cream. We have also added 250 mgs of Keppra for 5 days after a seizure to help stave off more. Our vet said that she thought by dismantling the clusters after a seizure instead of trying to do it before the seizure happened it would be more effective and she was right. Knock on wood again.
I hope this helps.
Keep us posted.
Lynne

Eley's Mom
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Chicago, West Suburbs

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by Eley's Mom » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:47 am

My vet only gives it to us preloaded, but all the syringes are stored in a dark brown plastic bag that doesn't let in light.
I've heard that the Valium is very light sensitive. I wonder if I would be able to buy it cheaper from a local pharmacy? Right now I get her phenobarbital at Walgreens for about 1/3 of what I would pay at the vet. The Valium syringes I get are about $15/syringe at the vet right now.

Eley has had a tendency to alway vomit up any pills we give her right after a seizure so we don't even go that route anymore.

Chris, have you tried that with Jim?
Diana & Eley
Boston Terrier (23 lbs)
DOB: 11/12/09
First Seizure 2/8/14
Last Seizure 10/9/16
Phenobarbital 48.6mg (morning), 56.7mg p.m. (night)
3 mL Potasium Bromide, once daily
Clorazepate as needed after seizures

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:31 am

That's pretty expensive. If you can, find a compounding pharmacy to make it up for you. We pay about $75.00 and get around 35 mls from it. If you can't there are a few online compounding pharmacies that are supposed to be good. I think there's a website so that you can see which ones are the best.
We used to get Jake's in a dark brown bag too. We still noticed a big difference when we switched. I think it has to do with the plastic syringe.

Lynne

Eley's Mom
Posts: 198
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Chicago, West Suburbs

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by Eley's Mom » Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:52 am

Very interesting...I'll have to look into that!
Diana & Eley
Boston Terrier (23 lbs)
DOB: 11/12/09
First Seizure 2/8/14
Last Seizure 10/9/16
Phenobarbital 48.6mg (morning), 56.7mg p.m. (night)
3 mL Potasium Bromide, once daily
Clorazepate as needed after seizures

cesullivan
Posts: 140
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:32 pm

Re: Foster Dog Jim made it 41 days...Cali over 14 months!!!

Post by cesullivan » Thu Sep 04, 2014 10:58 pm

Well Jim went 15 days and had 4 seizures this am in about 40 minutes. They were very different then his normal Grand Mal seizures. It was 5:30am and he jumped off the bed and was just not being normal so I flipped on the lights and went over to him, within a few minutes I could hear his heart start POUNDING and his legs cramped and shook and he went down, but didn't lay on his side and kept his head up, looking at me. Then it was over and we went outside...he had two more that were the same and his last episode was really strange. He was down the hall looking at me, I called him over and his legs started again, but instead of going down, he Goose-stepped over to me, blind as a bat, within a minute he was fine.

Very strange, maybe upping his phenobarbital and Potassium bromide is starting to work?

First time we didn't end up in the ER and I didn't give him any valium as they were not violent.

Thanks,
Chris, Cali and Jim (and non-seizure pup Bandit)
Cali 4YO female Lab/Chow mix
Cluster Grand Mals
Last Seizure: June 10, 13
Pheno 64MG 2x/day
Kbrovet 1,650MG 1x/day

Foster Dog Jim 3ishYO Lab
Pheno 140MG 2x/day
KBrovet 1,000MG 2x/day
Keppra XR 500MG 2x/day
Zonisamide 200MG 2x/day

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