Something new

General questions about tests and procedures for diagnosing canine epilepsy. Please note that we cannot make a diagnosis or interpret specific test results via this forum - please consult your veterinarian for specific advice for your individual pet.

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skrpio
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Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Something new

Post by skrpio » Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:19 pm

I received this email and decided to post it's contents as they seem rather thought provoking.

I have a couple of Dogue de Bordeaux�s in Australia.
I rescued 1 puppy of mine in 2004 after being dumped by the owners, she was diagnosed a few months later with steroid responsive meningitis and is still being weaned off meds.
A dog I own developed steroid responsive meningitis about 7 months after the above dog, but also after a very bad plane trip, dog is now fully recovered.
This dog had been mated twice prior to developing the illness. 1 Bitch was a sister to the first dog. Other bitch & litter no problems at all.
1 puppy from the first litter started seizing at 8 months old. His owners never had him fully tested and the vet just started med treatments for everything. So they are not sure what he has.
2 other litter mates developed Steroid responsive Meningitis at the same age the other puppy first seized. One with a particularly rare bacteria found in the brain fluid and both pups have now almost fully recovered.
Siberian Husky living with breeder also showed similar symptoms to Meningitis but vet said I was arthritis due to age of dog, but then 5 months later the husky has no arthritis, all pain is gone.
Mother of affected pup dies of throat tumour, breathing problem.

Due to the similarities of being Dogues, that the mother died of throat problems, that I also went back through lines, spoke to breeders of my dogs and found nothing, but also as a precaution said I would never repeat the combination or any mating closely related.

I was just wondering what your dogs lines were ? Did you ever find any information on epilepsy in the breed ?

I have come to a stand still with my research and no specialists can even tell me if, any of these cases, esp. the seizing boy pup, is epilepsy, if it�s genetic or from some other cause, due to my Husky having symptons and parents not being closely related as well. They just tell me they believe it is all immuno deficiency related but can�t say if it�s genetic either.

Ok -it's me now...
What I am wondering is if this rare bacteria found in the brain fluid has any link to it causing seizures as it affects the same parts of the neurological system.
On searching on line I found that retreivers, boxers and beagles are particularly susceptable to this SRM and are also high in the seizures too.
Are there dogs on this site that maybe affected with this problem?
It also raises the question, if the bacteria and the SRM affect the same areas as to what triggers the seizures, and can be treated, can this treatment halt seizures too.

I have just had another email from this person and she said her vet suspects that the meningitis was a virus in the soil where she was living as since she had moved to a new area and she has not had any more problems.

After sending email to Jean Dodds this is the reply ......

Dear Jane: Your question about a possible link between epilepsy and SRM really doesn't have a clean answer, because YES, it could. The trouble is that we ususlly call SRM a form of GME [granulomatous meningoencephalitis] -- although the latter has been used frequently these days to encompass a catch-all of CNS disorders that respond to steroid therapy. Also, animals can just have idiopathic epilepsy that runs in families. This may be a closely guarded secret, as you noted.

In young dogs, the onset of seizures can occur within 4-6 weeks of a vaccination, especially a rabies vaccination, but also from canine distemper or other vaccines -- given singly or together. Monthly heartworm preventive can cause seizures that appear regularly every month within 7-10 days of a dose of heartworm medication. Topical flea and tick products applied monthly can do likewise.

Meningitis is a non-specific term and can be a response to any type of infectious agent getting into the brain [virus, most often, but also bacteria (e.g meningococcus in children, toxoplasmosis), or parasites (e.g. visceral larval migrans) , or fungus (e.g histoplasmosis, leishmaniasis], a chemical reaction in the brain, an immune-mediated disease that targets the CNS, exposure to a toxin, a drug etc etc etc. ]. Most of these CNS disorders respond favorably to steroids and specific therapy to kill an infectious organism, if present.
Jean

Beyond my knowledge but someone may be able to understand it.
Last edited by skrpio on Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

MK's mom
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Post by MK's mom » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:30 am

Interesting. You might want to pass that on to Jean Dodds and see what she has to say about it.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Dylans Dad
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Post by Dylans Dad » Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:05 pm

whats the test?
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

skrpio
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Post by skrpio » Tue Aug 21, 2007 3:31 pm

Sorry Debby - I don't know anything about what tests were done but I will contact the writer and try to find out.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Dylans Dad
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Post by Dylans Dad » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:30 am

thanks, might be worth a check. while they have the blood and are testing it.
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:37 pm

See original post for Jean's reply
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

High_Voltage_Head
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Post by High_Voltage_Head » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:59 pm

Interesting stuff, not sure what to make of it. I would say though that using steroids is common enough that if it generally reduced seizures in epi dogs the doctors would have figured that out by now.

Another part of this fits in with something else that i've wondered about. I guess we've all seen how a seizure makes our dogs really hungry and thirsty afterwards. I suppose you could attribute the thirst to the dog being overheated from the seizure workout, but it's pretty clear to me that the thirst/hunger is more a function of some quirky brain activity during the post-ictal phase.

It's interesting to me that all epi drugs have this same effect on the dogs, making them hungry and thirsty.

And now steroids are mentioned. My main experience with giving a dog steroids was Prednisone, and the biggest side effects were increased hunger and thirst.

I dunno what all that means, maybe nothing. Maybe 90% of a dog's brain is wired for hunger and thirst so that all sorts of different compounds trigger the same response, who knows. I guess it's just destined to be another one of my life's unsolved mysteries.....i love those things, they keep me from getting bored.
Me: Kurt
Dog: Jackson the 6 y.o. Standard Poodle 55lbs
died March '08

Mandypop
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Post by Mandypop » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:53 am

This is intersting, but hard to understand fully!

Poppy was tested for any infections such as menigitis, and when she was going through tests, the MRI found she had a problem with draining spinal fluid from the brain, and they do the spinal tap to see if there are any infection (such as meningitis), as this excess fluid build up around the brain can lead to seizures.

Poppy's tests came back with a few odd cells, but nothing to say she had menigitis. If after her 2nd scan/spinal tap the fluid had increased, we were going to start steroid treatment, but the 2nd scan/tap was the same. So Poppy's epilepsy was treated as idiopathic.

I still think that the few 'odd' cells in Poppys spinal fluid were the result of the Drontal Plus womer's 'chemical reaction' on her brain.
Poppy - 9 year old whippet/greyhound (20 kg)

First seizure- 17th Oct 2006
Last seizure - 17th Nov 2009

90mg Pb twice daily
320mg KBr daily

xkaelie
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Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2013 7:43 am

Re: Something new

Post by xkaelie » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:23 pm

Ultimately how was the meningitis cured? What medicines were used and for how long?

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