Raw diet

Questions about the influence of diet and metabolism on seizures.

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MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Raw diet

Post by MK's mom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:45 am

Has anyone switched from kibble to raw diet and seen an improvement (or otherwise) with their epi dogs? I am considering the switch, but saw an article on Guardian Angels cautioning against raw for epis and have read other articles saying it's better because it eliminates grains.
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Raw diet

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:29 am

Hi Vivian,
We've had Jake on a raw diet until about a year ago, and now it's semi cooked (not much). We started him because when he first started to seize even without meds he seemed depressed and not a happy dog. We gradually switched him from conventional to raw and the difference was amazing. He was sooo much better. We did it a few months into his seizures, and it was part of his regimen to try to improve them so I don't for sure if it helped, but I can tell you that his seizures started at over 6 minutes and they reduced to 1.5 minutes. He was also taking a few homeopathic remedies. Our Samoyed has been on raw all of her life. Our vet is an advocate, but says that when the dog reaches an older age (Jake was 8.5) it's good to partially cook it. There is so much debate about, so I would say you should try it and see. We've had no problems at all with it. I make Jake's food now because commercially available raw is really expensive. I get Wholefoods to grind up whole chickens for me and divide it up into 2 lb servings. I grow the zucchini, cut it into small cubes and freeze it, and buy as much watermelon as I can over the summer months and freeze that too. I add a handful of blueberries, or peas. Green beans tend to give him gas so I stay away from them! Then I add 1 tbsp. plain yogurt, a large 1Tbsp of pumpkin and blend the veggies/fruit with that. I also add mashed potatoes, about 5 cups (Bob's Red Mill), and mix it all together. When I first started it seemed really hard, but now I can do it in my sleep.
I hope this helps.

Lynne

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Raw diet

Post by MK's mom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:43 am

Thanks Lynne. The raw fed is doing my head it, but no one has said their dogs did badly on it, so I thought about trying it for my two. My older boy is 8.5 yo like yours, although he's as healthy as a horse. One Irish Setter breeder was explaining it to me in percentages, how you have to give meat and bone at 80%, liver at 5%, etc and my eyes were rolling in circles wondering if I'd get it right. It puts me off to feed them raw meat, but if it helps both of them, most of all my epi boy, then I'm willing to try it.

So, you buy most of your meat at the butcher's? Do you give anything other than chicken?
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Raw diet

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:25 pm

Hi Vivian,
I do get the ground meat from the butcher. I've gotten to know them and they let me know about sales etc. I usually pay average $2.00 a pound. Regular ground chicken (without the bone, liver) is a lot more. Sometimes I get Turkey instead if it's on sale, but mostly I get chicken. We've tried hamburger, but it was more expensive and we didn't notice any difference in his health. Jake also has skin issues that we've been dealing with since he was a puppy. I know this can be a real pain initially, but I've gotten used to it. The only time I really care is when I've forgotten to thaw the meat, and I'm in a hurry. Luckily I've learned over the last two years not to do that too often. That can make Gentle Jake's mom kind of grumpy!

Lynne

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Re: Raw diet

Post by MK's mom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:42 pm

I've read that you have to have 'balance' by feeding bone, liver, beef, chicken, etc. Use this bone, not that bone, and it's worrying me! I know it's something I can catch on to, if i can manage epilepsy I'm sure I can manage raw fed diets! I never thought I'd pursue this, but my older dog has funky teeth, so he could benefit and the young one is now seizing, so I'm open to anything that will help him.

Do you find that feeding the raw is comparable in price to buying a bag of kibble or is it more expensive?
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Raw diet

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:37 pm

Hi Vivian,
I haven't bought kibble for awhile but I do think that raw is more expensive. We spend about $85.00 a month. We used to get PawNatural when they were just starting but their prices skyrocketed two years ago The chicken gets ground with the liver, gizzards, and bone, and every once in awhile I have them throw in beef liver. We used to give our pups these big beef bones to chew on. They loved them and it kept their teeth in great shape, but after Jake's last surgery to remove a stick that he ate our vet became concerned about the scar tissue in his intestines and said she thought it was too much of a risk that a piece could get stuck. So we stopped.
Lynne

cforecatsmeow
Posts: 225
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:58 pm

Re: Raw diet

Post by cforecatsmeow » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:14 pm

I have read much about the raw diet and many people swear by it for epileptic pups. I chose to go with the Taste of the Wild High Prairie kibble (bison and venison) after reading up on fillers, etc. I add in green beans, sweet potatoes, apples, cooked eggs, cottage cheese etc. as fillers and Winston has done very well as has his sissy Patty. I noticed a huge difference in the non-Epi Patty. She is bright-eyed and bushy-tailed as ever and they love it. The Guardian Angels site is wonderful and the owners do a fantastic job. If you have the time, the money and energy to spend on the raw diet, then go for it. I'm sure it cannot hurt with the proper addition of supplements and, again, there are many who would swear that it either lessened seizures or eliminated them all together. If you do choose to go this route, please let me know if you see a difference.
Cynthia and Epi-Winston
Black Mouth Cur Mix
DOB: 8/2/10
96 lbs.
First Seizure 6/11/13
Last Seizure 1/2/15
Phenobarbital 97.2 bid
Keppra (generic) 937.5 bid, 1125 sid
10 mg Valium tabs as needed
Liquid Oral Valium 5mg/5ml for rectal as needed

moina
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:23 am
Location: United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: Raw diet

Post by moina » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:03 am

Hi Vivian,

Our dogs stop eating kibble since pops had seizure two years ago. So, we started to give them pork, chicken and fish. We even give them fruits like apple and banana. Although, it's bit expensive but they are healthy than before. They even eat veggies such as carrot, cabbage and squash. My mom are the one who prepare food for them.

ethiopian
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:35 am

Re: Raw diet

Post by ethiopian » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:09 am

In my opinion raw diet could be only for some period of time, no longer then month.

Veterinary position is quite strict, they even say that there is no scientific evidence that raw feeding is beneficial.
Undiscovered cinema - Ethiopian movies

nancy180
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Raw diet

Post by nancy180 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:03 am

Hello,

Just a comment about this topic. None of these posts concern raw food. Raw food
is whole. Ground up leftovers from the butcher is not raw food.

Whole chunks of chicken, including most of the bones intact, whole chunks of
pork roast, beef, chunks of any meat or fish, is raw food.

Example of a raw diet. One whole chicken or turkey. I cut in 1/4. Feed 1/4 each
day intact. Only thing I ever remove is the long leg bones. All other bones are
eaten, intact.
Add a chunk of salmon, salmon skin, salmon head, whatever you have.
If no chicken, give chunk of beef ( round goes on sale for 2 bucks a lb)
with a piece of liver, and a turkey neck.
Feed veg if dog likes it, for fun, not because they need it.

Other nice meats are beef heart, chicken livers, gizzards etc. This is for a treat
mostly. I NEVER grind up bones, bones are chewed whole.

Yahoo groups has a good Raw food group for those who do not know how to
feed raw.

Nancy

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Raw diet

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:25 am

We grind whole chickens (not leftovers) for Jake because he's had four surgeries on his intestines and has scar tissue that would make it very difficult for him to eat whole bones. If a small piece, that most dogs would be able to pass, would get lodged we would loose him. He's not even allowed to chew on raw bones anymore. Dogs with epilepsy have different issues than most dogs on a raw diet so we adjust his diet to meet his needs.
Lynne

nancy180
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:55 pm

Re: Raw diet

Post by nancy180 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:48 pm

Hi Lynne,

Sorry Jake has been so ill. My dog also has the same issues. She also has some
kind of Neurological issue that they can't seem to figure out. One Doc said it
affects the same part of the brain as Parkinson's in people.

I never give her ground bones. Terrified of them. My friend used to feed a ground
mix. Very expensive too. I put my hand in it and it was full of small sharp pieces.

Perhaps in Jake's case he would be fine without the bone altogeather? I guess
if he is doing well on ground food you know what you're doing. Myself, ground
bone too scary. The bone in chicken breast is not bone, it is very soft cartilage.
I wonder if he could eat that without hurting himself?

I am lucky my PWD can eat normally, just the meds that an cause the runs :(

All the best,

Nancy

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Raw diet

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:58 pm

So far we've been lucky and Jake hasn't had any other neurological issues. I'm really sorry your pup is having more problems. That has to be scary. Does the dr think it's a form of canine Parkinson's?
When we get Jake's chickens ground they grind them almost to a paste. They're great about making sure there aren't any bone fragments. I spread it flat on the bottom of the container to check for sure. From what I understand cooked chicken bones are what we need to stay away from. One of the butchers has a friend with an epi dog and he does the same for him. It would cost a lot more to have boneless. We usually pay about $1.99 lb.
Jake's holding up really well so far. We're so thankful for that especially now that he's in the senior category. Personally I think one reason he's made it this far because he's so stubborn! (Not kidding)

Lynne

cecilia
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:24 pm

Re: Raw diet

Post by cecilia » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:29 pm

I just bought a bag of Primal for my Bronson, haven't given him any yet, want to check with the vet first but I read tons of reviews which are all positive:

https://www.primalpetfoods.com/
Bronson: 5 year old Poodle/Bichon Rescue pup
First Seizure: Oct. 22, 13' after taking Trifexis
Last Seizure: April 18, 14' 9:26 a.m.
Meds: Keppra 100 mg-1.7 mils. every 8 hours
Pheno: 16.2 MG every 12 hours
Zonasamide 50 mg every 12 hours

cecilia
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:24 pm

Re: Raw diet

Post by cecilia » Tue Apr 22, 2014 10:35 pm

Here is the article cautioning against it in case anyone is interested:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-ang ... w_Food.htm
Bronson: 5 year old Poodle/Bichon Rescue pup
First Seizure: Oct. 22, 13' after taking Trifexis
Last Seizure: April 18, 14' 9:26 a.m.
Meds: Keppra 100 mg-1.7 mils. every 8 hours
Pheno: 16.2 MG every 12 hours
Zonasamide 50 mg every 12 hours

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