Cannabis Oil

This is the place for general questions about drugs, long-term treatment concerns, possible influences of other drugs (such as antibiotics, heartworm preventatives, or anesthetics) for epileptic dogs, and other concerns. Please note that we cannot make specific recommendations for individual dogs - for this, please consult your veterinarian.

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jschrader
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:14 pm
Location: Crown Point, IN

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by jschrader » Mon Sep 14, 2015 11:47 am

I have been thinking about adding this but concerned with the effects and the cost.

CCH
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:55 pm

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by CCH » Sun Nov 22, 2015 3:49 pm

Im new to this forum and just came across this discussion. I have been trying different products with my Lab so thought I would share. Its difficult to find information about it but what I have learned I am willing to share if it helps others. One thing to know is that there are basically 2 types of Cannabis compounds (1) THC - aka marijuana, psychoactive (only available legally in States that allow marijuana sales). (2) CBD - hemp, non-psychoactive (legal to ship anywhere in U.S.). Both have been reported to be helpful in managing seizures in humans (and now possibly in dogs). I am trying both with my dog. Here's our experience...

1. CBD tinctures (no THC) - absolutely a waste of money. Most of these products have such a low CBD content that its completely ineffective in my experience. Also most tinctures are made with either alcohol or glycerin. Neither additive is good for dogs with seizures. (note: the FDA did some research and found some companies to be very deceptive so be careful if you order from the internet. Canna-pet tincture was found to have absolutely no CBD oil in the product. See FDA warning http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/PublicHea ... 435591.htm)

2. Syringe based pure rich CBD oil - no THC (I dilute with coconut oil to help with dosing) - this has some promise and I am still experimenting with different company's products from the Internet. I began with too much dilution which showed almost no effect on my dog but once I reduced the dilution (higher CBD content) the better she responds (much better quality of life - she is happy, more alert, and she recovers from seizures quickly). No decrease in number of seizures though.

3. Hybrid THC/CBD oil - This one is actually helping the most so far but we just started 6 weeks ago. The pacing, barking, and agitation pre and post ictal have decreased by 50%. Seizures reduced from 6 down to 2 in the first month but its still too soon to see if it continues to help over the long term. I have not stopped any of her anti-seizure meds - pheno, Keppra, Zonisamide, Chlorazipate. (BTW, I live in a State that is legal to buy THC products in a dispensary)

Look forward to any comments, questions, or other experiences. I am still learning and experimenting :)

ShilohsMom
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:42 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by ShilohsMom » Mon Nov 23, 2015 4:14 pm

Thank you for this information we're really at the end of options and I've done some research on this but to be honest have found it really confusing, thank you for clarifying it. I looked into the Canna-Pet MaxCBD either capsules or oil but really hate spending another $200 on something else that doesn't work and from what I've read success is mixed.
Colleen, Rylie, Sophie & angels Izzie & Shiloh
DOB: 11/11/05
First seizure: 07/28//10
Last seizure: 06/27/16

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 927
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:16 am

Thank you for posting the information. Our vet just contacted me the other day about this. It will be interesting to see what happens long term.

Lynne

CCH
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:55 pm

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by CCH » Fri Nov 27, 2015 11:15 am

I have done a lot of research (meaning I've checked out sources online and personal stories). It is very time intensive. I can share what I've learned so far but realize we are in the same boat. My girl is very difficult treat (per her neurologist) so I just keep trying. My personal experience is that in the treatment realm I prefer products that are human grade. The scams on these pet products are very likely. All my dogs (all are healthy except "Lani") are on human grade supplements, food, treats, etc. I seek out reliable human grade sources then research appropriate dosages. Here's a couple CBD only products available online legally that I have tried and would do again (my girl does better with THC so I now use a dispensary)

"Herbal renewals" (oral syringe 16% cbd) at Healthyhempoil.com

"Real Scientific Hemp Oil" (oral syringe 14% cbd) at cbdstore.com

both these products should be diluted before dispensing. PM me if you need more info.

jenniesmith
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Oct 01, 2015 12:32 am
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by jenniesmith » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:08 am

I know it has been used for the treatment of cancer in canines just as in people by vets in California but vets are strictly monitored in this regard and the laws passed have not really dealt with the use in canines.

happy_blackbird
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:24 am

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by happy_blackbird » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:45 pm

Hi, everyone! I am new to the message board, but I wanted to post our experience with CBD oil so that more people have access to anecdotal evidence.

A little background on Ellie and her epilepsy. We have a 22 month old lab out of hard core hunting lines who was diagnosed with idiopathic epilepsy four months ago after a head injury sustained in play (5 days in the UC Davis neuro ICU, fun!). Unlike her littermates, Elle was born with absolutely no drive, but with some unusual behavioral issues that made her unlike any other lab we had ever raised (intense barrier frustration and separation anxiety, zero response to correction, an abject panic response to the crate) and which we now think of as part of her wonky neurological make up.

Ellie's seizures are partial/focal motor seizures that are alternatively described as "fly biting syndrome". Ellie would swing her head and look around as if imaginary flies or fairies were swarming her head and she would snap at them with her mouth. If the seizure progressed unabated, she would often run through the house as if the imaginary fairies were chasing her, crying in panic. Other times, we would find her alone in another room, head drooped below her shoulders, just staring off into space. Sometimes, one of her ears would simply twitch uncontrollably for a few seconds, rest, then twitch again. Prior to being medicated, these would continue non-stop, round the clock, even if we called her name or tried to snap her out of it. She wouldn't play with a toy, wouldn't eat or drink, or acknowledge us. It was terribly upsetting. As we became more acquainted with these type of seizures, we began to recognize her pre-ictal pattern (reaching back as to bite at her rear flank at if something had nipped her or the ear twitch) and realized she's been doing these since she was about 12 weeks old.

Ellie is on 200mg zonisamide 2x day and 2ml potassium bromide 1x day (down from 4ml, she was drinking and urinating too often and experiencing hind end weakness and poor coordination). We started experimenting with different CBD products almost immediately because her medications were not controlling the seizures well and we were impressed with the pediatric epilepsy case studies at Denver Children's Hospital (we're from Colorado, where marijuana is legal). Just like CCH stated in his/her post, we had pretty unimpressive results with different types of commercially available products that are made specifically for pets.

After a week of using "Cana-Pet" products made from industrial hemp, we saw no difference in Ellie's seizure rates or their duration. There is no indication on the box of how many mgs of cannibidiol (CBD) is contained in each biscuit serving, which led us believe there is no standardization in their products or possible no CBD contained in them at all.

We tried a CBD "resin" sold in a syringe at a local pet store (I can't remember the name) also made from industrial hemp. While this time the product did actually smell somewhat of pot, it had no benefit for Ellie's seizures and she would often vomit about an hour after administering it to her.

We also tried "Treatibles", a CBD loaded cookie that actually has a lab tested, certified amount of CBD in the cookie and is supposedly from actual medical marijuana not industrial hemp (though how they are sold legally, I have no idea). They are pricey, but if we gave ellie five or six, she would rest more easily and seemed a bit more sedate during the day.

Enter medical marijuana for humans. We went to see Dr. Richter at Holistic Veterinary Hospital in Oakland and he saw first hand how poorly Ellie's seizures were controlled (she was fly snapping all over the place in his office). He recommended a product called Lovingly and Legally Formula #3, CBD extract in almond oil that could only be purchased at a medical marijuana dispensary here in CA. It is only CBC, no THC. My husband got a medical marijuana card and we bought it the next day.

We started with a tiny dose, 1.5ml, once a day and the effects were noticeable. It took about two hours for the what we call the "pot puppy" effects to kick in. At first she seemed more sedate, which pleased us, as Ellie's side effects from the zonisamide and Kbr are agitation, restlessness, and vocalization. After about a week, her seizures seemed to noticeably decrease and the initial sedation seemed to abate (I am thinking she finally had a good, steady blood level of CBD). Yay! After a month, we upped her dose to 2ml 3x day to see if we could get better coverage on her seizures at night before bed (she tends to fly snap when tired after periods of over-excitement and physical exertion).

Now, here's the thing. After a few weeks, Ellie's agitation, restlessness, and vocalization in the morning actually increased. We don't know if it was because we had started to decrease the Kbr the month before (24 day half-life with that stuff) or if the increase in the CBD is working against her. We're still trying to figure it out, but we're going to continue her on it and tinker with the dosage amount and schedule. Sadly, it's all a grand experiment, as we don't know if dogs even HAVE cannabinoid receptors, but I do know that I can't bear to see her suffer from intractable seizures and I, personally, am not ready to go down the phenobarbital road (and am not pleased with her demeanor/personality on the zonisamide and Kbr). As long as she is healthy and happy (thank goodness she is both of those things), we'll tinker till we have a good balance between medication load and seizure rates.

I hope this is helpful info for people considering CBD for their epileptic pups. Please feel free to PM me if there's anything else I can share. Good luck!

happy_blackbird
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 10:24 am

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by happy_blackbird » Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:48 pm

I forgot to add, the cost for the CBD we use is about $200/month. Yup, it's pricey!

carla_mia
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by carla_mia » Sat Nov 05, 2016 11:32 pm

We tried CBD/THC 30:1. Our dog was clustering daily and the vet wanted us to start phenobarbital. We wanted to give CBD a try and we were very hopeful but it didn't break his clusters. We were dosing him up to 50mg CBD per day and he's 70lbs. We also included treatibles which are CBD treats.

Many people report CBD working on their epileptic pets. There's no risk for OD but it's difficult to know how to dose them or if you're giving enough..there's a lack of available information.

Started him on zonisamide today but see no effect yet. Most like go to vet for phenobarbital tomorrow. Such a difficult journey. Stay strong and good luck to you all ♡

KMarg
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by KMarg » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:03 pm

My dog Kaiser just went through a very trying time. He had over 20 grand mall seizures in 48 hours. He spent 2 days at the Vet. The vet also discovered that he had very high levels of pheno in his system. The vet finally called and said there was nothing else they could do for him - he was still having a lot of facial tics, he was not moving on his own, he was not eating on his own.

I went and picked him up, intending to call the mobile vet and have him put to sleep at home. I really wanted him to be home. When I picked him up, I could tell he was still with us, he was just too worn out to do anything. I started researching medical marijuana because, like everyone else I had heard about the little girl from New Jersey that moved to Colorado so that she could obtain marijuana oil.

Here's what I discovered. Marijuana is made of different components, 2 of which seem to be the most important. CBD (I can't remember the full name) which does not get you high, but has medicinal properties; and, THC which does get you high. My reading indicated that the 2 oils work together synergistically. However, too much THC would cause your pet to get high -- not something I wanted to do. Further research indicated that an ideal mix for seizures is a 5(cbd) to 1(thc) ratio.

I found 2 products that are formulated for pets. One is HempMyPet. This product is available online and does not contain THC. You can purchase it through Amazon. The second product is VetCBD. This is a 19 (cbd) to 1 (thc) ratio and is NOT available online. So you would have to live in a state that allows medical/recreational marijuana and jump through whatever hoops your state requires.

I started with the HempMyPet. Dosing was the hardest part, and as I am not an expert and I am acting on my own research, I am not going to post any guidelines. I used the HempMyPet for 2 days while I jumped through the hoops to get VetCBD. Over those 2 days, some of the facial twitching stopped and Kaiser (my dog) seemed to be resting more comfortably and really sleeping. By day 3, I managed to get some VetCBD and another product with a 3cbd to 1thc ratio. The 3:1 is way to high, in my opinion, to give to your pet. But I mixed them up to about a 10:1 ratio. By the end of the 4th day home from the Vet, Kaiser was up and walking. Actually he was pacing, back and forth and back and forth. He was not uncomfortable. He appeared to know that he needed to move to get his strength back, and that's what he did.

It has now been 3 weeks. After he seemed to be doing well, I stopped adding the 3:1 mix; and then I stepped back from the VetCBD and went back to just the HempMyPet (no thc). He has had one grand mal seizure, night before last. I gave him VetCBD with the mix to raise the CBD:THC ratio. He then went back to sleep. Yesterday, I continued with the VetCBD, but only a few drops of the 3:1 and I also gave him an extra treatment in the afternoon. Today, we are back to the HempMyPet (no thc).

He is bright and alert, moving and eating and drinking on his own. He has damage from the 20+ seizures of 3 weeks ago. He doesn't come when called, he doesn't bark at all, he is a bit unsure of himself, and he is going potty all over the house. But..he is loving and appears happy. He was making really good progress on the potty thing until the seizure the other night. Set us back a bit. I am hoping that he will be back to using the great outdoors in the next day or two.

I don't know what the future holds for us, but he is off all meds, except for the CBD oil. He was on pheno, K-bro and Keppra and he still had 20 seizures. It seems it would be torture to put him back on all those meds again, for naught.

At this point, it is one day at a time. But I am highly encouraged by this magic oil.
Kaiser & KMarg
Kaiser is a Ger. Shep./Border Collie mix
Born Nov/Dec 2011
First seizure July 1, 2013
Last Seizure July 26, 2017
PhenoBar, 1 grain, 2x daily
Keppra, 750 mg, 2x daily
KBro, 750 mg, 2x daily
CBD/thc only since July 8, 2017

KMarg
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by KMarg » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:22 am

Well we made it to August. Whew!

Kaiser has lost weight and is down to about 90 pounds now. He no longer eats like every meal is his last one. This morning, he didn't finish his breakfast. I think that is because he is no longer on the pheno. I continue to use VetCBD for Kaiser. I give him 1ml with breakfast about 8:00 a.m. and 1ml at 8:00 p.m. This is the only medicine he is taking now. No more Keppra, KBro or Pheno.

He is doing well. He is eating on his own, he will come when called for breakfast, dinner and his 8:00 p.m. medi-treat. I think (LOL)) that he is beginning to let us know when he needs to go out. He sleeps a lot.

He was a very vocal pup and now he hardly makes any noise at all. He doesn't cock his head when I talk to him anymore, either. He will play "catch" where I throw the ball directly to him, he catches and then spits it out so it rolls back to me but he doesn't play fetch anymore and he is no longer obsessed with his toys.

He is a very smart dog, with a mind of his own, so I continue to talk to him and encourage him. And he has started being playful with his little brother Charlie again.

I'm putting this here, because I hope it helps others who have come so very close to losing their pet and are trying to help them back.

Most important of all is that Kaiser is not uncomfortable, he appears happy but maybe still a bit confused about all of this. Each day seems to get a little better. And we are now at almost 2weeks with no seizures, the last one being July 25th, 2017.
Kaiser & KMarg
Kaiser is a Ger. Shep./Border Collie mix
Born Nov/Dec 2011
First seizure July 1, 2013
Last Seizure July 26, 2017
PhenoBar, 1 grain, 2x daily
Keppra, 750 mg, 2x daily
KBro, 750 mg, 2x daily
CBD/thc only since July 8, 2017

SpencerBhumi
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:25 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by SpencerBhumi » Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:35 pm

Hi KMarg,

This is encouraging news, both for the seizure control and for Kaiser’s improvement.

I hope Kaiser continues to ‘wake up’ and interact more joyfully with you and Charlie.
I will keep you in my prayers.

Trevor & Spencer
Grateful for the good days, weeks (months).

KMarg
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Apr 26, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by KMarg » Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:56 am

SpencerBhumi wrote:Hi KMarg,

This is encouraging news, both for the seizure control and for Kaiser’s improvement.

I hope Kaiser continues to ‘wake up’ and interact more joyfully with you and Charlie.
I will keep you in my prayers.

Trevor & Spencer
Grateful for the good days, weeks (months).
Thank you SpencerBhumi. Your prayers are much appreciated. We really thought we had lost him. If I could figure out how, I would post a picture. He continues to get better everyday. Even chased his ball yesterday. He wouldn't bring it back, but he chased it. LOL!
Kaiser & KMarg
Kaiser is a Ger. Shep./Border Collie mix
Born Nov/Dec 2011
First seizure July 1, 2013
Last Seizure July 26, 2017
PhenoBar, 1 grain, 2x daily
Keppra, 750 mg, 2x daily
KBro, 750 mg, 2x daily
CBD/thc only since July 8, 2017

ShilohsMom
Posts: 810
Joined: Tue Nov 12, 2013 1:42 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Re: Cannabis Oil

Post by ShilohsMom » Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:45 am

Hi KMarg,

To post a picture you'll need to upload it to a photo sharing site like Photobucket. When the pic is uploaded there's a drop down box on the pic and look for Direct Link. Copy that link and then in your CEN message click on the box that says IMG and paste the direct link between the brackets. If that doesn't make sense to you let me know and I'll try to explain it better.
Colleen, Rylie, Sophie & angels Izzie & Shiloh
DOB: 11/11/05
First seizure: 07/28//10
Last seizure: 06/27/16

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