Adajade

This is the place for general questions about drugs, long-term treatment concerns, possible influences of other drugs (such as antibiotics, heartworm preventatives, or anesthetics) for epileptic dogs, and other concerns. Please note that we cannot make specific recommendations for individual dogs - for this, please consult your veterinarian.

Moderator: Box40Rin

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Adajade

Post by adajadesmom » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:35 pm

I'm having such a hard time with Ada and her seizures. I'm here at work crying my eyes out as I'm the one that has to make the decision as to whether or not we put her to sleep.

Her seizures are getting longer (episodes are now 2 1/2 hours from 1 1/2) and hardly take any activity to set them off.
She's in a diaper almost all the time as each time she has a seizure, she's incontinent. She's also very unsteady, especially after the valium and extra pb each time she has a seizure. Last night after a 2 1/2 hour episode, she couldn't walk at all, not even to pee (as she hadn't been out in hours). Finally after 1 1/2 hours, it got to where I could get her to stand up long enough to pee.
She can't play at all outside as it will trigger an episode. Her only play is inside, mildly with my other dogs, tugging at each others toys or mouthing one another.

I called the vet as it's time for me to go get more valium, and told him we're thinking of having her PTS. He said he completely understands, but said he suggests waiting a few more days to see if the cholodin supplement starts to help. It seems like each time I'm almost ready to let her go, I'm told to hang on a little longer. I'm mentally exhausted, physically aching, going broke from all the meds and vet trips, not to mention how it breaks my heart to see her falling down all the time or just laying about from being medicated.

I honestly don't know how some of you have fought this battle for so long. But these extra long episodes are wearing us down and I don't feel she has much of a life.

I'm not really asking for advice, I just really needed to vent to people who know what I'm going through.
Thanks for listening.

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:52 pm

I'm so sorry you and Ada Jade are going thru this. I understand the financial stress it comes with, that can send the owner into fits!!! Why hasn't the vet gotten her into his office to give her a loading dose? If she continues seizing like this you may not have to make the decision, one will be made for you. Having that many clusters is life threatening.

What is her current dosage of meds? Is there room for an increase? Sometimes these guys have to be on trial and error until a therapeutic dose can be reached.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:54 pm

I am so sorry you and Ada are having such a bad time of it. I know this time of the year is very stressful and this may not be helping. Can you try some rescue remedy (for you both) to try and reduce the stress levels.
Unfortunately the drugs do take a while to kick in. Has your vet advised you to try KBr as well as the PB.
There have been several dogs on here that are at the same place as Ada is now and by tweaking their meds have suddenly stretched out the seizure activity.
Ultimately it is up to you as to which way to go, but you must do it for Ada not for you.
Keeping you and Ada in my thoughts whatever the outcome may be.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Post by adajadesmom » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:14 pm

I've got Rescue Remedy which really doesn't seem to help her much and for the most part, I'm okay during the seizure as I'm getting used to it. It's just I feel so bad for her being medicated all the time (dopey, falling down, incontinent). The rectal valium did help the one time I had enough of it. I'll be going and getting more tonight. We just weren't sure how much it would take to stop the seizure activity. The valium pills knock the activity down but not out completely.

As far as meds, she's on 2 grains pb 2x daily (BID, I believe) along with 500 mg's KBR (BID) however the vet had me up that dose to 750 mg's KBR BID as of today. She's also on .5 mg's deximethosone BID.
For supplements, she's on Cholodin and Wellactin.

She's been on the KBR for 2 months now, but just started the Cholodin and Wellactin. Vet said the Cholodin needs a bit longer to get into her system.

We're gonna stick it out a while longer.
Thanks for letting me talk this out. Most of the people I speak to think they would've given up by now which is hard to hear.
You are all so nice to be here to listen and help.

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:22 pm

The KBr should be starting to work in the next month. It can take up to 15 weeks for that to reach therapeutic levels.

If you don't think the valium is up to snuff, then ask your vet for clorazapate. that drug works better on my boy when he clusters than the valium did.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:36 pm

That's what this site is all about. I would have gone crazy if it were not for my friends on this site being there for me when we needed it the most. Most of the time it is not the advice - it is the support, as other do not know what it is we and our dogs are/have gone through.
As Vivian says - give the meds a bit more time to kick in as she has not been on them very long.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

Bethelonia
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:11 pm
Location: Virginia

Post by Bethelonia » Tue Dec 18, 2007 5:59 pm

Adajadesmom, boy am I with you! I am about at the exact same thought process with TJ as you are with Ada. After this last cluster after I thought the Kbr was helping so much I was pretty much ready to have TJ put down. When I discussed it with my vet (which I never have before) he was very sympathetic, not encouraging me to wait longer but instead telling me I had lasted much longer than most would have under the circumstances.

As you know, the difference between TJ and Ada is that TJ always has trouble walking and can't play like a normal dog at all. Her moments of happiness often seem few and far between. Still....just when I am about ready to put us both out of our misery, she rallies somewhat and I am left wondering how I could even consider such a thing!

I don't really know what it will take for me to really know when it's time.

So anyway, I'm sure I'm not much help but just wanted to let you know I feel you!
TJ: JRT born on 9-11-01. Genetic neuro disorders including seizures, first one at 5 mo., after that many clusters, may she Rest In Peace, PTS on 12/31/07.
KC: 8 mo. golden lab/terrier who is lost without her best buddy.

KeelysMom
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 8:27 am

Post by KeelysMom » Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:36 am

I just want to say I'm so sorry that you're having such a hard time. I'm new to this forum, and I'm also very lucky as Keely's seizures seem to be under control for the time being with KBr (1.6 mg twice daily and and PB (60 mg twice daily). And, as stressful as it is to watch them have one, I can't imagine what it must be like for 2 1/2 hours!! You are in my thoughts.....and you too Bethelonia and TJ.

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Post by adajadesmom » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:39 am

Aww, thank you all SO much! I will give it time as I do know KBr takes time to kick in. Not to mention the other things we're trying.

I'm glad my new vet will speak up and say he'd wait a bit longer if that's what he really thinks I should do. After all, that's why we're having him treat her. He's a very sweet guy, that I haven't even met in person yet. When I call (which has been very often lately) I apologize and he says, "Don't apologize, that's what I'm here for." which makes me feel good! He does understand the other thoughts though and expresses that too.

I remember reading about your experience with clorazapate, MK's mom and will definitely keep it in mind if the valium doesn't work well.

I've also been reading about your experiences with TJ, Bethelonia. It seems it will be a tough one to figure out in the future if "the time has come" as they do seem to perk up incredibly. Maybe I should think of it as, if she doesn't perk up for a few days after an episode, that maybe THEN it's time. It's hard to know they can't play, isn't it? But then I see her pick up a toy and plays by herself and know her spark is still there.

This will be an experience I will never forget. It takes strong people to deal with this and generous, heart-warming people to support each other through it. I truly thank you all and look forward to continuing my visits here. (KeelysMom & skrpio, this goes to you also.)

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Wed Dec 19, 2007 11:53 am

Ada Jade, please remember that for some dogs the post ictal phase after a seizure can last a couple of days and that may be what you're seeing after AJ seizes. I remember in January, MK seized a lot and had to be hospitalized, he experienced post ictal for DAYS afterward and acted as though he didn't know my other dog and was suddenly afraid of things he hadn't been afraid of before. it was due to the amount of seizures he had in a 24 hr period and took the stuffing out of him for weeks. He finally returned to normal though.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Post by adajadesmom » Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:44 pm

Thanks. That is definitely true as today she's walking around much better. Poor thing just seems to start getting clear of the post-ictal symptoms and then has another and we start all over. But I'll keep my hopes up for a new record each time we start over.

Puggles
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:25 pm

Post by Puggles » Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:06 pm

I recall when I first adopted Monte that I was feeling lost with his ocndition. After reading and researching though, and speaking with others on an epi list, I realised I was not in this alone.

I am sorry you, and your epi, are having such a bad time of it.

Monte also clusters but he will have 5 or 6 seizures within the space of an hour. By late last year the time had shortened and he was having 5 - 6 seizures within 40 minutes and I was begining to think he was heading towards status.

This year though he has, for the first time, had three single seizures and only 1 cluster of 4 within 40 mintues.

We have spent the last 3 years constantly adjusting his meds. Each time we think we have his seizures at optimal control his breaks out and has another cluster. We also administer valium rectally.

Luckily for me though, Monte's post ictal is very short and he abosrbs the valium quite quickly, and so within a few hours he is back to normal.

I have had many people say to me to be prepared to euthanase him but honestly, I beleive he is a happy healthy dog who, for the most part, enjoys his life.

We have our ups and downs, we vent, we get through it again.

You are doing a marvellous job. If and when the time comes you will make the decision and you will make the right decision for your individual circumstance.
www.pugrescuesydney.com.au

adajadesmom
Posts: 104
Joined: Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:28 pm

Post by adajadesmom » Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:06 am

Thanks Puggles. You sure are right about the ups and downs and getting through it time and again.

My nights are pretty sleepless, but I'm getting through it and sleep a little extra on weekends when I can.

We're continuing the fight as I want to give her meds time to do their thing.

My good wishes to you and Monte.

Melissa and Raven
Posts: 68
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:10 pm
Location: Barrie Ontario
Contact:

Post by Melissa and Raven » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:18 pm

All of our warm thoughts and wishes.

XOXO

Dylans Dad
Posts: 490
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:12 am
Location: SE Iowa
Contact:

Post by Dylans Dad » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:30 pm

hugs to you. we know what its like. my hubby and I had serious thoughts about not making Dylan live his life this way.
but the meds do take time. and aside from weight gain, Dylan is ok.
I have my vet on voice dial.
but only you know your baby. I recently read on a suport group that you know its time when you make a list of your pups 5 favorite things to do, when they can no longer do all of them, its time.
I aways just disided its when they arn`t having fun anymore.
keep us updated ok?
Wags & Slurps
Debby & Dylan
6 yr old Border collie
1st aug 7 2006
last 7-18-08
375 MG kbr twice a day
1 47.5 pb twice a day

Post Reply