Clusters and Meds

This is the place for general questions about drugs, long-term treatment concerns, possible influences of other drugs (such as antibiotics, heartworm preventatives, or anesthetics) for epileptic dogs, and other concerns. Please note that we cannot make specific recommendations for individual dogs - for this, please consult your veterinarian.

Moderator: Box40Rin

MTM
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Midwest, USA

Clusters and Meds

Post by MTM » Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:08 pm

Hello all! I am just wondering if anyone knows of any pups who clustered before being on meds and since being on meds no longer clusters? I am also curious if people have noticed a decrease in severity of the seizures in general? Actually, I would like to know anything anyone would like to share about their experiences... Thank you and I hope everyone is resting easy tonight!
~Marie
Epi:
Murfy -forever free but forever missed <3
Toby -74 lbs, 8.5 yrs old, black lab mix
Meds:
258 mg Phb, .9 mg Thyrosyn and 300 mg Zonisamide BID. Also 575 mg NaBr daily.

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:06 pm

MK clustered at the onset of his seizures and has clustered after being on medication. His dosage was increased once since he started meds and has clustered once since then. I also added Taurine to his regime last Sept and knock on wood, he hasn't had any clusters since starting it.

Getting to the therapeutic level is often a chemistry test and even when you think you've got it where it needs to be, you may have to tweek it again.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

MTM
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Midwest, USA

Post by MTM » Thu Apr 03, 2008 6:13 pm

Vivian-

What is MK's post-ictal like and how long does it last usually?
~Marie
Epi:
Murfy -forever free but forever missed <3
Toby -74 lbs, 8.5 yrs old, black lab mix
Meds:
258 mg Phb, .9 mg Thyrosyn and 300 mg Zonisamide BID. Also 575 mg NaBr daily.

jack's mom
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:45 am
Location: Kansas

Post by jack's mom » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:31 am

Jack had one cluster episode before starting on Phenobarbital, he has also clusterd several times since being on it. I have not noticed a decrease in the severity of his seizures. They are pretty violent and his post-ictal phase can sometimes last for up to 7 hours with pacing and stumbling. He is also very jumpy, startles easily for about a week after his seizures. In my unprofessional opinion, the only effect the Pheno has on Jack is to space out his seizure pattern by about a day. I do give him honey and butter after a seizure (he throws up ice cream) and that seems to help him calm down. I've also noticed that after a seizure, which are usually in the middle of the night, if i keep all the lights off and go right back to bed, he settles down better. In another post, i have detailed how i recently started Jack on Soloxine (low thyroid) and switched his food and treats to grain, wheat, corn and soy free. Jack has now gone 16 1/2 days seizure free, which he has never done before except when his seizures first started and were three months apart and when i first put him on Pheno when he went 28 days. I have been doing a lot of research on all this lately and have read several studies on humans in which thryroid, allergies, and certain foods have been found to cause seizures.
Jody
4 years old AM bulldog
June 07 - 1st seizure
PB 150mgs 2X a day
Soloxine, KBr, Zonisamide 250mg 2X a day

Mandypop
Posts: 238
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:29 am
Location: London, UK

Post by Mandypop » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:53 am

Poppy's seizures started with clusters on 17th Oct 2006 at around 7am whilst she was dozing on my bed. During her veterinary work up, they became too close together, and she was put on Pb. Since being on Pb, we have not had another seizure (and I hope it stays that way!).

I also have a stash of rectal valium, as this greatly reduced Poppy's post-ictal stage, which I found was worse than the seizures themselves and lasted for several days.

It took a while for Poppy to adjust to medication, but I can honestly say, that she is the same loony hound and is so much fun. The only drawback is that she is no longer a 'fussy eater' and is always on the look out for food, and hence has put on a few pounds in weight.
Poppy - 9 year old whippet/greyhound (20 kg)

First seizure- 17th Oct 2006
Last seizure - 17th Nov 2009

90mg Pb twice daily
320mg KBr daily

Carolyn
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:08 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Carolyn » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:04 am

In the beginning Kiya had 1 siezure, then less than 48 hours later she clustered, given loading dosages of pb & began kbr. Since then (November 2005) she only had single siezures exect for November 2006 she had 2 in a row. Except for the beginning her siezures are usually the same, padding, foaming & salavating, post-ictal about 1 hour of pacing, loss of vision, confussion. I am afraid to give her anything after a siezure, she is so programed I feel if I were to give her ice cream or food she will learn to have seizures just to get snacks. So I comfort her and don't make a big deal anymore. I just pray really hard it will only be 1.
Carolyn
Kiya 11yr Shiloh Shepherd
PB 60mg am 90mg pm, 1teas kbr 1200mg, turmeric paste
1000mg milkthistle bid
First seizure 11/27/05
Last seizure 5/21/15

MTM
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Midwest, USA

Post by MTM » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:58 pm

Thanks for the responses all. Today my husband went out of town and to be honest, I am a little scared. I have been alone with Toby many many times since his cluster- for many many hours at a time- but my husband has always been a phone call and 10 minutes away. There is nothing to indicate Toby will have a seizure but of course, no gaurantee he won't, either! I am just really nervous and needed a little hope, I guess- hope that if he does maybe it won't be so bad or it won't be a cluster or something. He has been doing fine but it stays in the back of my mind and I am trying to remain calm so Toby doesn't pick up on it. I just have to say it- I HATE SEIZURES!!!!!!!! Whew, felt good to get it out ;)

Last night, Toby and my husband were playing ball and the ball rolled onto concrete. Toby just kept running and when he tried to stop at the ball he ended up shredding his stop pads. The right one was pretty mangled. He was at the vet and they cut damaged parts out and put him on antibiotics so he is all patched up but very restless. He is supposed to stay off of concrete until they heal and every time he goes outside, his feet have to be soaked in mild soapy water and then have salve applied. So, basically he needs to stay inside and not run around and it is driving us both crazy! Please send good thoughts for a calm weekend!!!! Thank you!!
~Marie
Epi:
Murfy -forever free but forever missed <3
Toby -74 lbs, 8.5 yrs old, black lab mix
Meds:
258 mg Phb, .9 mg Thyrosyn and 300 mg Zonisamide BID. Also 575 mg NaBr daily.

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sat Apr 05, 2008 2:04 pm

You need to try and stay calm. We know it's hard - but it is something you have to do. Toby will pick up on the stress and it's not good for him either. Someone had a saying here when I first joined the forum - "we live with epilepsy NOT for epilepsy". If you are continually in a state wondering when the monster will attack nobody is going to be OK. Accept that this is what life is for a while and get on with other things. Deal with it when it happens and not wait for it to happen.

On the paw problem. I had a dog that did the same thing. What I did to stop having to bathe it every time he went out and to also offer some protection was to make up thick pads of cotton fabric with a soft inner like quilting batting. I put these under his pads and held in place with surgical tape. Over the top I put an old sock that was long enough to go up the leg and wrapped tape around this to hold in place. If it was wet outside I put a plastic bag over the top but removed it as soon as he was in again. At night I removed them to allow fresh air to get at the wound. If chewing began I put a little tabasco or similar onto the sock.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

DELETED

Post by DELETED » Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:07 am

DELETED

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:07 am

Have you tried giving Barney Taurine. I have been chatting with MK's mom. She has added this to MK's meds and it seems to be working. It might not stop the seizures but it may help not to go into clusters.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

MTM
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Midwest, USA

Post by MTM » Sun Apr 06, 2008 7:09 am

We are starting Murfy and Toby on Taurine and MK's mom has answered quite a few of my questions about it- definitely worth trying ;)
~Marie
Epi:
Murfy -forever free but forever missed <3
Toby -74 lbs, 8.5 yrs old, black lab mix
Meds:
258 mg Phb, .9 mg Thyrosyn and 300 mg Zonisamide BID. Also 575 mg NaBr daily.

richmauer
Posts: 252
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:21 am
Location: Morristown, NJ

Post by richmauer » Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:52 am

Where would I get Taurine dosage info?
Precious Peanut in doggie heaven 6/25/10 - 10 years old
English Cocker female 10 y/o "Sundae"
Shiatzu Male 10 y/o "Casey"

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:39 am

MK weighs app. 75 lbs and he gets 1 500mg of Taurine BID. Check the Epilepsy Guardian Angels site, they might indicate how much to give a smaller dog.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

MTM
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Midwest, USA

Post by MTM » Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:40 am

MK's mom knows a quite a bit about Taurine and I believe there is also an article on Epi Gaurdian Angels website, too. I believe MK is taking 500 mgs BID and he is around 70-75 lbs. That is the dose Murfy and Toby will be taking.

Edit: MK's mom beat me to it ;)
~Marie
Epi:
Murfy -forever free but forever missed <3
Toby -74 lbs, 8.5 yrs old, black lab mix
Meds:
258 mg Phb, .9 mg Thyrosyn and 300 mg Zonisamide BID. Also 575 mg NaBr daily.

MTM
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:12 am
Location: Midwest, USA

Post by MTM » Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:38 pm

Today Toby spent his first morning home by himself since his cluster. Murfy was here with him, of course, but I put them in separate rooms. When I came home for lunch my heart was pounding but things are ok. They are out sniffing around the yard and barking at the birds for awhile before I have to go back to work. I know I am being a little irrational but the clusters really threw me for a loop... Murfy's seizures are so mild in comparison. Thanks for listening to me rant everyone!
~Marie
Epi:
Murfy -forever free but forever missed <3
Toby -74 lbs, 8.5 yrs old, black lab mix
Meds:
258 mg Phb, .9 mg Thyrosyn and 300 mg Zonisamide BID. Also 575 mg NaBr daily.

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