Dawson's thyroid results are back

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Anastasia
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:30 pm
Location: Carbondale, Illinois

Dawson's thyroid results are back

Post by Anastasia » Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:28 pm

Of course my primary vet did not request an interpretation by MSU, so I thought I'd post the numbers to see what you all think.

TT4 14 L [15-67 nmol/L]
TT3 2.2 [1.0-2.5 nmol/L]
Free T4 9 [6-42 pmol/L]
Free T3 4.1 L [4.5-12.0 pmol/L]
T4 anti 8 [0-20%]
T3 anti 5 [0-10%]
TSH 8 [0-37 mU/L]
ThyAnti 3 [0-35%] this was indicated as an "interpretive data"

Nothing drastically out of whack, I know.

I also had his serum KBr levels checked: 1160 [1000-2000 ug/mL]
Dawson (aka "Peanut") - Cavalier King Charles/chihuahua/terrier mix?
Adopted at 5 mos old, now 3.5 y/o
1st seizure at 10 mos old, 12/30/07
KBr: (1ml) 300 mg, SID
Zonisamide: 150 mg, BID
Keppra: 3 ml, TID
Thyroxine: 0.15 mg BID

Anastasia
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:30 pm
Location: Carbondale, Illinois

Post by Anastasia » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:45 pm

An update: I emailed Jean Dodds early this morning and got a response from her within an hour. This woman is a Godsend. I bawled like a baby when I got the email. (Our neuro responded mid-afternoon, with the suggestion that we 1) increase the zonisamide, 2) admit him for a telemetry EEG, and/or 3) consider SURGERY because of Dawson's structural problem in his brain. I mean, there's already a small empty space in there, are they going to take out MORE?)

Dr. Dodds uses different reference ranges, so Dawson's TT4 and FT4 were actually quite low. She did suggest no further vaccinations (he had his rabies shot on 8/5, which is when the seizure activity really increased exponentially, duh!), of course no heartworm/flea preventatives, his diet is fine, and suggested 0.15 mg thyroxine BID. I've already picked it up from our primary vet and given Dawson his first dose.

Any idea what kind of side effects I can expect since he's also on anti-convulsants? I understand the thyroxine can cause the drugs to be over-metabolized, i.e. an increase in seizures?, but I'm not sure what else to look for.

Anyone had any experience with gold bead implantation?
Dawson (aka "Peanut") - Cavalier King Charles/chihuahua/terrier mix?
Adopted at 5 mos old, now 3.5 y/o
1st seizure at 10 mos old, 12/30/07
KBr: (1ml) 300 mg, SID
Zonisamide: 150 mg, BID
Keppra: 3 ml, TID
Thyroxine: 0.15 mg BID

claires friend
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:49 pm
Location: California

Post by claires friend » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:12 pm

Don't you just love Dr. Dodds?? I would never be getting through this without her. I have never heard of thyroid meds causing seizures. Some times you have to give more seizure meds if the dogs gets really active again. In Morgan's case I have to give more thyroid meds because the pheno does something to them. I am really not impressed with your neuro's suggestions here. I wish we could both find someone that inspired some degree of confidence .
Susan Marie
Morgan -Foster Golden, now ours FOREVER !!
First seizure Aug 16, 2006 @9 months old ,very low thyroid
She has been with me since the end of July 07
150mg PB BID
.5 soloxine BID
400 Kbr BID

claires friend
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:49 pm
Location: California

Post by claires friend » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:14 pm

Sorry I did not respond to Dawson's numbers, but I had no clue what they meant since I am used to Dr. Dodd's numbers.
Susan Marie
Morgan -Foster Golden, now ours FOREVER !!
First seizure Aug 16, 2006 @9 months old ,very low thyroid
She has been with me since the end of July 07
150mg PB BID
.5 soloxine BID
400 Kbr BID

Anastasia
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:30 pm
Location: Carbondale, Illinois

Post by Anastasia » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:05 am

Susan, Dr. Dodds did refer me to Dr. Barbara Royal in Chicago (she highly recommended her), of the Royal Treatment Vet Spa. Check our her web site, I think it's <www.royaltreatmentvetspa.com>. While she specializes in holistic medicine, I think she also maintains a primary type practice (I just gave the site a quick glance), and Dr. Dodds said Dr. Royal also could most likely offer a neuro referral. I hope to take Dawson up there within then next few weeks. I'm definitely asking about this gold bead implant therapy (maybe a type of permanent acupuncture?); Dr. Dodds said it helped one of her most refractory patients (his owner drove him from southern Cal to Chicago for the procedure). I'll let you know what I find out about the gold bead implantation.

I agree with you on the neuro situation. My husband called them the day before yesterday and gave someone an earful. Their response was "you have to realize we may have done everything we can for Dawson." I guess what that really meant was "we can't think of anything else to do so let's just crack open his cranium and root around in there." Sorry if this is crass, I'm just so disappointed with them.

When I posted the numbers I didn't expect many responses. From the readings and lab reference ranges nothing looks really outrageous, and it's kind of gibberish anyway unless you really know what all those tests mean.

How are you and Morgan managing lately?
Dawson (aka "Peanut") - Cavalier King Charles/chihuahua/terrier mix?
Adopted at 5 mos old, now 3.5 y/o
1st seizure at 10 mos old, 12/30/07
KBr: (1ml) 300 mg, SID
Zonisamide: 150 mg, BID
Keppra: 3 ml, TID
Thyroxine: 0.15 mg BID

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Fri Aug 21, 2009 6:18 am

I post on another epilepsy list and there's a gal there that has had gold bead implants for 2 of her dogs, I believe. I think one did fine and the other one didn't, so when I looked into it they said dogs that cluster have a much lower success rate. Is Dawson a clusterer? I guess if I had the extra money for gold bead implants and they assured me the beads would stay put and not serve as an embolism, I'd try it myself. What do you have to lose if the neuros are at their wits' end? If you don't already, why don't you sign up on the other list and ask around. Maybe some of the posters can give you more information with the implants. It's the EPIL-EASE K9 list. If you're interested, I'll get the link for you.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

Anastasia
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:30 pm
Location: Carbondale, Illinois

Post by Anastasia » Fri Aug 21, 2009 3:53 pm

I think I signed up on that list serv a couple of days ago. It's the one with the Rainbow Bridge link on the home page, right? Canine-epilepsy.com, I think. You're right, it looks like the procedure falls into that nebulous category that all drugs/treatments fall into: what works for one dog doesn't work for another. Still pretty interesting, though...
Dawson (aka "Peanut") - Cavalier King Charles/chihuahua/terrier mix?
Adopted at 5 mos old, now 3.5 y/o
1st seizure at 10 mos old, 12/30/07
KBr: (1ml) 300 mg, SID
Zonisamide: 150 mg, BID
Keppra: 3 ml, TID
Thyroxine: 0.15 mg BID

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sun Aug 23, 2009 2:03 pm

The thing with Dr Dodds is that she compares the results for the same type of dog whereas others just read off a chart or something ie the results can be the same for a Mastiff as for a Foxie and do not take into account the size and activity of the dog.
After battling with my vet over thyroid my KiKi's results came back that she was in the "grey" area but when the samples were sent over to Dr Dodds they came back as extremely low. So my vet reluctantly put her on thyroxine at the doseage as given by Dr Dodds BUT he decided to begin to LOWER her PB. This was so wrong - he should have been upping it to conteract the increased metabolism.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

frasalone
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:17 am

Post by frasalone » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:26 pm

My dog's seizure activity also increased dramatically after receiving Rabies vaccinations. The Neuro. that I see told me that they are seeing increased vaccination reactions in her breed (she is a German Pinscher). In fact, there is some excellent information on this posted on the German Pinscher Club of America website.

The Neuro. told me to move to a 3-year rabies vaccine given alone; no multiple vaccines. I was also told that epileptic dogs should never receive rabies vaccinations in the summer; it is better to wait until the weather is cooler.

claires friend
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 2:49 pm
Location: California

Post by claires friend » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:47 pm

Dr. Dodds has advised me to never vaccinate Morgan again.
Susan Marie
Morgan -Foster Golden, now ours FOREVER !!
First seizure Aug 16, 2006 @9 months old ,very low thyroid
She has been with me since the end of July 07
150mg PB BID
.5 soloxine BID
400 Kbr BID

Anastasia
Posts: 43
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:30 pm
Location: Carbondale, Illinois

Post by Anastasia » Thu Aug 27, 2009 6:28 am

I know there is some general controversy in the veterinary community over recommendations made by Dr. Dodds, and I understand why. But what I have found is that most vets are skeptical of trying anything they haven't first read in one of their vet school textbooks. Books are fine, but there is no substitute for a long career filled with success stories backed by empirical evidence.

While I think one should always be informed and never take a doctor's word as law, I trust her judgment. She emailed me back within 1 hour of receiving my email about Dawson's 6-week seizure cycle, and we corresponded several times during the day. I couldn't get a call back or email from our specialist for ~4 weeks. I - and my primary vet - followed her recommendation to start Dawson on thyroxine, and he has made a marked improvement in just 1 week. His hair is growing back, the partial seizures are fewer and less severe, he looks and acts much better. She also told me never to vaccinate him again, or give him the heartworm/flea preventatives. Of course you then have to be diligent in ordering regular heartworm tests/using flea combs, etc. Some of the evidence may be anecdotal, but it works, which is what counts. And giving our pups the peace and relief they deserve is what we all are looking for.

I'm just saying :-)
Dawson (aka "Peanut") - Cavalier King Charles/chihuahua/terrier mix?
Adopted at 5 mos old, now 3.5 y/o
1st seizure at 10 mos old, 12/30/07
KBr: (1ml) 300 mg, SID
Zonisamide: 150 mg, BID
Keppra: 3 ml, TID
Thyroxine: 0.15 mg BID

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:15 am

I was talking with a gal who's worked in a vet's office for years and she said they've been having more and more adverse reactions to vaccines, especially the ones coming from Fort Dodge. I was going to ask my vet if they kept records back to January of '06 when MK got his vaccines that preceeded his seizures, but I have yet to call them to see if it was a Ft. Dodge vaccine that caused him all the problems.

I have also heard that the 3 year vaccine is the same dosage as the 1 year vaccine, so anyone who gives their dog a rabie shot every year is really pumping it full of garbage. How the vets can do this to an animal and swear that it isn't causing any damage to the poor soul is beyond me.

As Dr. Dodds, a lot of the veterinarians haven't heard of her or they think she's a kook. She was very good with me when we corresponded, so I can't say anything negative about her. My boss used to work with her when they were in NY State years ago and he said back then people used to come to her for advice all the time, so she was very respected back then, too.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sun Aug 30, 2009 1:43 pm

I have found where the thyroid results are on the forum.
I asked Jean Dodds for them after I got KiKi's results back and Kain put them in for me.

Go to Welcome to CEN - page 2 - 16 items down under
CANINE THYROID TESTING RESULTS
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

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