Kiya's half sister now epi?

This is the main focus of the research underway by the Canine Epilepsy Research Consortium. Some of your questions may not have clear answers at this time, but ask them anyway!

Moderator: Box40Rin

Carolyn
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:08 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Kiya's half sister now epi?

Post by Carolyn » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:07 am

I was very supprised to hear from my other dog's breeder, long story short she bred her girl to Kiya's sire, now this pup 9 months old is having seizures. When I posted to the yahoo group I caused quite the commotion a few years ago. There was one person who had a pup who had siezures a few years prior to my post, don't think it was the same lines, but no one else came foward.
I'll be speaking to her soon, after 4 years we still keep in touch. The family has had experience with another dog with siezures and they had run all tests of course & you all know the results..normal.
Carolyn
Kiya 11yr Shiloh Shepherd
PB 60mg am 90mg pm, 1teas kbr 1200mg, turmeric paste
1000mg milkthistle bid
First seizure 11/27/05
Last seizure 5/21/15

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:39 am

Carolyn,

I am NOT surprised to hear this and I can't tell you how flamed I get when I hear of breeders going ahead and breeding littermates of epileptic dogs!!!!!!!!!! They'd rather take the chance than starting over with their breeding program.

I am so sorry for the affected puppy and their owner. I hope the owner isn't one of those people that will give the dog back or put it to sleep. Not all people want to deal with epileptic dogs.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Fri Jul 27, 2007 11:41 am

ooops, just reread your post. It's the SIRE that is throwing epileptic puppies? Same thing in MK's lines, the sire and his sister have both produced epi puppies yet the co-owners of the dogs refuse to believe the epilepsy is coming from them. DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It may not be those two dogs specifically, but some of their get have epilepsy so they shouldn't be bred, PERIOD!!! What does it take for some people to get it?
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:56 pm

The only way anyone is going to stop breeders who continually use dogs that they know throw epilspsy is to make it public through kennel clubs etc or public notices that ask for owners of dogs with certain breed lines to contact them so it can be determined if it is genetic or idiopathic. Too many breeders use dogs too closely related because they do not wan to be beholding to another breeder to introduce new blood.

KiKi's breeder went back through lines to rule out any genetic problems and could find none. She said just as a precaution she was not going to use that particualr combination again and anyway KiKi's mother has since passed on caused by a throat and breathing problem.
I did have contact made by an owner of a Dogue in England but that is the only other Dogue I have heard of with epilepsy. Unfortunately I cannot trace the lines to see if they come together.

I hope the person with the infected puppy joins this board for support.
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:52 pm

Breeders often DO want to breed inline and not outcross for fear of other diseases cropping up and they're also guilty of taking chances like the one posted above because there's no definite test to determine if the sire or dam or ancestors are passing on the epileptic gene. If you tell them they shouldn't breed littermates to epi dogs, they say there wont' be anything left to breed to and their favorite phrase is, 'let's not throw the baby out with the bath water'. In other words, let's not jump to the conclusion that the littermate or sire/dam is the carriers. I wish the researchers could come up with a test, but even then I think too many people are willing to take chances.

Have you guys ever heard of test breedings? I guess they used to do it a lot with PRA and any affected puppies were put to sleep. Those people make me sick...
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:09 pm

It's so sad isn't it. Casey and Callie are half brother and sister, same father, different mothers and one of my worst fears is Callie may become epileptic also. They both developed hip dysplasia as well as another sibling to Callie (which was put to sleep due to the severity of it) All I could do was pass the information on to the breeder and beg her to please stop breeding the three dogs involved. Did she, I will never know, although she said she did, but I would love to know if any of the other puppies from the two litters have had problems. I hope this puppy will be loved and taken care of.
Debbie
Angel Casey
05/03/04-10/24/07
and his non epi sister Callie

High_Voltage_Head
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by High_Voltage_Head » Fri Jul 27, 2007 10:01 pm

My AMATEUR UNTESTED theory (that everyone hates!) is that almost all dogs are essentially inbred freaks. Even the mutts came from inbred freaks a generation or two back. Think DUELING BANJOS. Anybody ever seen those wild dogs in Africa? Those are real dogs. Unlike most dogs, those dogs can actually survive on their own in the wild because they haven't been turned into circus animals. They have short hair, they weigh about 40 lbs, they have pointed ears that stand up, and some other characteristics that i can't think of. The farther away from that standard that our dogs get, the more problems they're going to have. I don't see any way that this problem is going to get anything but much worse over time. Bottom line is that i do not believe people have the ability to breed only good characteristics into dogs....there are always going to be unforeseen problems when you play God, no matter how good your intentions are.
Me: Kurt
Dog: Jackson the 6 y.o. Standard Poodle 55lbs
died March '08

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:18 am

I agree Kurt, that breeders are going to have a problem crop up if they breed often enough. It's the ones who KNOWINGLY breed dogs that are suspected carriers of anything that get my goat. They're so willing to take reckless chances with the lives of innocent puppies and wreak hell on unsuspecting owners. I feel more for the dogs than I do the owners because it's their bodies that are going thru the illnesses and they feel the discomfort and pain of whatever it is they've been cursed with. I know a few of those people myself and nothing anyone says gets thru to them because they think they're smarter than everyone else. I guess they don't care if epilepsy becomes their legacy, just so they can have that ONE top winning dog out of all their breedings, the other puppies be damned.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

High_Voltage_Head
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by High_Voltage_Head » Sat Jul 28, 2007 7:39 pm

I should probably say that i love all these varieties of dogs as much as anyone does. It's so much fun to see all the different sizes and shapes, from wiener dogs to great danes, they all make beautiful friends.
Me: Kurt
Dog: Jackson the 6 y.o. Standard Poodle 55lbs
died March '08

skrpio
Posts: 1143
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:34 pm
Location: Auckland , New Zealand

Post by skrpio » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:09 pm

Debbie - arn't the breeders over there compelled to get hip and elbow xrays done before breeding ?
Jane
In loving memory of my special KiKi Bean
Seizure free forever now
Nov 25th 2002 - Nov 1st 2006
Dogue De Bordeaux

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Sat Jul 28, 2007 8:14 pm

They're supposed to get those things checked, but they dont' have to. I wouldn't buy a dog from a breeder that didn't, but I don't think everyone is aware of this, especially pet buyers.

Vivian
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

lovemypups
Posts: 438
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:08 pm
Location: KY

Post by lovemypups » Sun Jul 29, 2007 9:36 am

Hi Jane,
As Vivian said, the breeders should get those tests done, and a good breeder will, as well as offer to show you the papers verifying the tests were indeed done. I know when I purchased my now deceased Sheltie 12 years ago the breeder did show me papers stating the parents had both been tested for HD. Part of it was my own fault for not asking the right questions and trusting the person who pointed me in the breeders direction. Maybe the person pointing me in the breeders direction was unaware that she (the breeder) had just started breeding. Callie was from a second litter, Casey the third. I also was unware of this fact until after I did some research. By the time I discovered both of them had HD I was very attached and would have never thought of returning them or putting them to sleep. I was just mortified though, when the breeder informed me it was my fault, which is impossible as it is hereditary and I got another big brush off when I informed her about Casey's epilespy. Needless to say, we do not communicate anymore, but I do worry/wonder about all the siblings of Casey and Callie.
I know things happen and yes, it can and does happen occassionally even with the best of breeders. It's the backyard breeders or puppy mills who are in it for the money that cause the most harm. Most reputable breeders will take the puppy back, or possibly refund half of your money, and try to help anyway they can with morale support. It's the ones like my breeder and others who could care less without so much as an "I'm sorry" that make it so bad.
Ok, let me get off my soap box, I could go on all day about the anger I still feel.
Debbie
Angel Casey
05/03/04-10/24/07
and his non epi sister Callie

Carolyn
Posts: 440
Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:08 pm
Location: Long Island, NY

Post by Carolyn » Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:58 am

Kiya's half sister Lexi isn't doing very good, heres the latest email:

The vet they�re working with is a canine neurologist��part of a big neurological clinic that I didn�t know we had in MichiganJ Yes, they�ve put her on Kepra. Unfortunately the seizures aren�t responding to the meds and now she�s developed rage syndrome as of yesterday morning plus took off running in fear outside and slammed full speed in to the fence. They did a liver shunt test last night in the hope that the liver is not processing the meds. We�ll get the results today. We�re running out of options and it�s not fair to her��she�s scared, she doesn�t understand what�s going on and the meds aren�t working

any input greatly appreciated
Carolyn
Kiya 11yr Shiloh Shepherd
PB 60mg am 90mg pm, 1teas kbr 1200mg, turmeric paste
1000mg milkthistle bid
First seizure 11/27/05
Last seizure 5/21/15

MK's mom
Posts: 1708
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:48 am
Location: Michigan

Post by MK's mom » Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:04 am

Carolyn,

I think that's the neurology clinic I deal with. There's only one in MI that I know of.

Vivian

BTW, I love my neuro, his name is Dr. Isaacs.
Nathan
3.5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 7/26/2013
Last seizure 3/24/2014
__________________________________
MK
5 yo Irish Setter boy
First seizure 1/25/06
Last seizure 9/4/2009

Aug 17, 2004- Sept. 22, 2009
May the shamrocks fall softly sweetpea

High_Voltage_Head
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2007 10:00 pm
Location: Minnesota

Post by High_Voltage_Head » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:31 am

What is "rage syndrome"? Never heard of it.

The liver shunt test is usually one of the first things checked so i assume that means an MRI hasn't been done yet? Was the running into the fence part of a seizure episode? I might be confused but "rage syndrome" and fearful running into fences makes me think BRAIN TUMOR unless these things are happening during a seizure or shortly thereafter.

Good that a neuro is involved.
Me: Kurt
Dog: Jackson the 6 y.o. Standard Poodle 55lbs
died March '08

Post Reply