generational inheritance of epilepsy

This is the main focus of the research underway by the Canine Epilepsy Research Consortium. Some of your questions may not have clear answers at this time, but ask them anyway!

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Morgan
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:58 pm
Location: Mass

generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by Morgan » Thu Dec 29, 2011 12:40 pm

Hi,
I'm looking for advice on purchasing a labrador pup. we just lost a lab that had epilepsy, morgan. the lab before him had epilepsy, zach. they were unrelated. 20yrs of pills at exactly the same time every day. 20 yrs of traveling in 2 cars so one of us could get back home for the "pill". Of course less we forget the sleepless nights, urine and wear and tear on our canine loves.

My dilemma is that we want another one. we just love labs.

the breeder who had the father of morgan has a litter due in feb. the sire of this litter has a step brother of morgan (they have the same father). This sire is 9 almost 10yrs of age. The bitch is a 4yr 9mth old. According to the breeder neither has had seizures or pups that seize. morgans father sired over 100 litters. breeder says he is aware of only 2 pups with epilepsy out of the 100 litters.

are we asking for trouble taking a pup with some of the same blood line morgan? based on what i've read, no one has identified an inheritance pattern, i.e. does it skip a generation, etc and, from what i've read, it is common for the parents of a litter to be clean yet a pup or 2 down the line, not necessarily immediately, will seize. Is it all just a crap shoot? thanks

Gentle Jacob's mom
Posts: 925
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:52 am

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by Gentle Jacob's mom » Thu Dec 29, 2011 1:06 pm

I could write a book about how I feel about this subject. My question to you is, "Why would you risk it?" What I will tell you is if breeders like Morgan's would stop breeding relatives of epileptic dogs (parents, siblings, offspring) it would eventually wipe out 50% of canine epilepsy cases. That's not just my opinion. That's the opinion one of the top canine epilepsy neurologists in this country. I think she knows more than your breeder. I'm sorry if I sound angry, but I can't believe that they don't know that just because a relative of an epi dog isn't seizing, they can still carry the gene and pass it on. Thank your breeder for carry on an old habit that is causing a lot of pain. If you want a reputable breeder go to Toby's Foundation. She has breeders posted that have written contracts not to breed epi dog relatives. If you can't find a Black Lab breeder, I would contact her anyway, she may be able to help you. Again, I'm sorry to sound so angry. I'm not angry at you, just your breeder. Our Jake came from a breeder who said the exact same thing as yours...

Lynne

seebr5640
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:34 am

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by seebr5640 » Thu Dec 29, 2011 3:58 pm

Morgan,

I'm afraid that I have to agree with Lynn.

I'd prefer a pup from a reputable breeder that can prove no signs of epilepsy in the line.

To take the chance of having a pup with epilepsy would not guarantee that the pup would have a long life like some others have had. Not all epi-pups are so fortunate. It would be just sad to take that risk and have it die at an early age or you having to make the decision to put it down. And you would probably hate yourself for taken that risk.

Barb & epi-Sampson
Pb 64.8 BID
KBr 1.2 ml of 250 mg BID
Zonisamide 300 mg BID
Keppra (generic) 250 mg BID
Wellness Core Reduced Fat TID

Morgan
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:58 pm
Location: Mass

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by Morgan » Fri Dec 30, 2011 12:55 pm

Thanks for the replies. I appreciate your responses. I'm hoping that one of the researchers from the univ (moderators) would offer their opinions. I'm confused by healthy, non-epi, parents throwing pups with epi, etc.

How do you find a reputal breeder? I thought we had done that 13yrs ago when we purchased Morgan. I called them both to let them know that he seized at age 4. I asked if they would continue to breed the parents. The mothers kennel said she only had that 1 litter and the fathers kennel said absolutely!. He said the father had sired over 750 pups and none to his knowledge were epileptic. Even now he claims that he only knows of 2.

The minute you start to question the breeders about it they become less friendly and defensive. How to they show me proof that their dogs haven't had seizures or pups, which have been dispersed to many families probably, haven't had seizures?

We've decided to forego getting a pup from the kennel that Morgan came from. I've since located a Pup that I am interested in out of Litchfield NH. She's going to decide if she's keeping him or not next week. I still don't feel any more confident that this pup will be clean.

Happy New Year,
Donna

seebr5640
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:34 am

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by seebr5640 » Fri Dec 30, 2011 7:40 pm

Hi Donna,

To find a reputable breeder in your area, you can ask around where you live. Even ask your vet. Be prepared to drive a couple hours away from where you live, if that is what it takes to find a reputable breeder. I have had people tell me they have drove 4 hours each way to find a good one. As Lynn said earlier, "If you want a reputable breeder go to Toby's Foundation. She has breeders posted that have written contracts not to breed epi dog relatives. If you can't find a Black Lab breeder, I would contact her anyway, she may be able to help you."

Once you have found the breeder, ask lots of questions. I am sure if you do a browser search, you will get a few hits on what questions should be asked. And maybe the breeder can provide you with references of previous clients that you can contact, some that were a while back and some that are recent.

Here’s one that I have found.
http://dogtime.com/finding-a-good-breeder.html

Well, at least the previous breeder was honest with you that they continue to breed. :evil:

Keep in mind a good breeder should not get offensive with your questions.


Barb & epi-Sampson
Pb 64.8 BID
KBr 1.2 ml of 250 mg BID
Zonisamide 300 mg BID
Keppra (generic) 250 mg BID
Wellness Core Reduced Fat TID

seebr5640
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:34 am

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by seebr5640 » Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:19 am

Hi Donna,

I saw the area you live in is Mass.

This site lists some lab breeders in your area.

http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages ... esults.php

Good Luck!
Barb & epi-Sampson (39 lb Sheltie)
Pb 64.8 BID
KBr 1.2 ml of 250 mg BID
Zonisamide 300 mg BID
Keppra (generic) 250 mg TID
Wellness Core Reduced Fat TID

Morgan
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:58 pm
Location: Mass

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by Morgan » Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:36 pm

Hi Barb,

I contacted a breeder off the labrador club website yesterday. I was disappointed that thise site didn't cover health issues in labs at all. At least nowhere that I saw and I clicked on every topic. We'll see how it goes. I'm actually looking for a chocolate male.

I will go to Toby's Foundation as soon as I get a chance.

What does all that info in your signature mean? meds?

"Pb 64.8 BID
KBr 1.2 ml of 250 mg BID
Zonisamide 300 mg BID
Keppra (generic) 250 mg TID
Wellness Core Reduced Fat TID
Hi Donna,

seebr5640
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:34 am

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by seebr5640 » Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:51 am

Hi Donna,

Hopefully, the breeder will have supporting documentation that her puppies have no health ailments like seizures in the blood line. Sorry, that it was not available on line. Be sure to ask around about this breeder. She may be able to help you find a chocolate lab.

Also, when you check the lab club website, if you live near a state line, you can check the other state that you live near as well.

Yes, the list in my signature is the medications that Sampson is currently on. The last one is the premium dog kibble I feed Sampson.

Good Luck,
Barb & epi-Sampson (39 lb Sheltie)
Pb 64.8 BID
KBr 1.2 ml of 250 mg BID
Zonisamide 300 mg BID
Keppra (generic) 250 mg TID
Wellness Core Reduced Fat TID

“They too, are created by the same loving hand of God which Created us...It is our duty to Protect Them and to promote their well-being.”—Mother Teresa

srhode
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:43 pm

Re: generational inheritance of epilepsy

Post by srhode » Fri Mar 23, 2012 8:19 am

Most gene alleles that cause epilepsy are recessive, that is why dogs that do not have epilepsy themselves can produce epi pups. Once a dog sires and epi pup, it can be presumed that that parent is a carrier of an epi allele. There are many genes that can cause epilepsy. See this report:

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2156/12/38

The search goes on.

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