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reply to KiKi's mom

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:49 pm
by welshdog
Hi Jane--it was not tilll I realized that it was the Heartguard Plus that was causing the seizures--after three months in a row--that I wanted to get off the "Plus", but my vet didn't carry the basic Heartguard (without the "Plus) Reading what Dr. Dodds had on her Guardian Angels site, Ivermectin seems to be a problem. This is when I wanted to switch. I wanted Interceptor--but all he had was Sentinnel (which is Interceptor with addititives). The Interceptor finally came in and it caused seizures. So this month was the Revolution. Same.
When I refer to "kibble" this is the same dog food that I weaned my puppies on to, Nutro Lamb and Rice. (the word "kibble' here just refers to the dry food)

one more thing, Jane

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:59 pm
by welshdog
Yes, Jane, after two seizures the vet had me increase the PB by 1/2 of the am (or pm dose) This didn't stabalize her. That is when he got me on the rectal valium. Nosey weighs avout 21 lbs. and as soon as I picked up the Valium, he told me to give her 1/2 cc rectally to see if we could stop the next seizure---they were nearly by the clock at 5 hrs. apart.--Hour 5 came and so did the seizure. Then he had me give her 2 cc rectally. It worked. She has been seizure-free for 27 hrs. now and has begun walking normally and even went out the dog door and down the steps to the back yard. So I am back to the am and pm PB and saying a lot of prayers!

immunizations and seizures

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:13 pm
by welshdog
Jane--How old is KiKi? If KiKi is at least five years old I would discontinue immunizations--you can read all about it on Dr.Dodd's website. I think that this is part of what threw Nosey into seizures along with the anesthesia and heartworm preventative---all on the same day....
My 8 year old Welsh Terrier was due for his shots---I was "spooked" because of the problems with Nosey, so I did titers on my male dog, "Pabst". His antibody titers for distemper/parvo came back high and his heartworm blood test done at the same time was negative. Consider titers.

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:07 pm
by skrpio
KiKi will be 4 this November and has been seizing since Feb 05 when she had her second lot of annual vaccinations. She started with one or two seizures and then started to cluster when I gave her the icecream remedy from the guardian angels site. Every 3 hours on the dot she would go down, and cluster anywhere from 8 - 12 in an 18 hour period until I could get her to the vet. (We live a way out from the city) I now have a KiKi emergency box with her vallium and additional PB tablets, Rescue Relief and Belladonna and Absentium. The last two are from a Natropathic vet that I tried before I decided it didn't work. These two do seem to help her get over the seizures a bit better - but as my regular vet said it can't hurt her.I have pondered putting in some minature bottles of a stiff drink for me sometimes.
I have spoken (emailed) Jean Dodds regarding her vaccination protocol and she advised me never to get her vaccinated again and to stop any kind of flea/tick treatment. She advocates that the dogs are being over vaccinated - we don't get our kids vaccinated every year so why subject our dogs to it. I'm glad we don't have laws here regarding vaccinations, but it is required if you are wanting to board your dog in a kennels.
From another source I found out that there is a feeling that "old breeds" like the Dogue are intollerant of toxins like vaccinations etc. A lot of problems have occurred when dogs are being shipped to new countries. An owner of a quarantine kennel here in New Zealand told me they have a lot of problems with dogs (no particular breed) having seizures and other problems as they are dosed with so many different chemicals when they arrive that their bodies cannot cope. This is a real problem for many breeders who are bringing in overseas stock. In fact most are now opting for IV instead, thus saving dogs from having to go through all this crap.
I asked my vet about getting titers done and he said that because she has had all her puppy shots and two years of vaccinations she would be ok now and have an immunity and since she does not live in a community where she would come in contact with other dog regularly he's not worried. Luckily we don't have rabies here.

to Jane:

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:50 pm
by welshdog
Jane, from everythig that I have heard about Dr. Dodds, she is one dedicated lady. I have a puppy--actually "Lark" is now five years old, but this dog went blind and deaf over night. The gal is in Montana---no man's land---no good diagnostics around. She drove her dog to Colorado (a 12 hr. drive) to the University- - No definitive diagnosis. Lark's owner contacted Dr. Dodds and she has been in consultation with the home-town vet for Lark's treatment. She never asks for a cent!
I'm glad you know about the immunization thing. I argued with my vet in Feb. about giving my 10 year old "Nosey" immunizations. He eventially talked me into it. He used the example of the flu vaccine for humans---that it is highly recommended for the elderly that are immuno-compromised. I wished I would have stood my ground. I will NEVER immunize one of my dogs again. (I have three Welsh Terriers still living with me). The vet told me that he would sign a waver for the "mandetory" rabies injection--required here in Ohio every three years--stating that it would compromise Nosey's health to receive the injection.
You know. I have been feeding Nosey about 1/4 cup of her dry dog food about every three hours and I really believe that this has helped to bring her out of some of the horrendous side effects of the Valium and increased PB---remember this. I also did the Bryer's vanilla ice cream and did the ice pack to her back. I think it all helped this last seizure and has made her rebound more quickly.
Seems all this stuff is trial and error---and what works for me may not work for you. But it is important to share this information with everyone.
Until later.....

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:33 pm
by skrpio
Don't vets get paid for their "services". This is probably why they try to push certain products. ie Hill Science Diet - it's a company owned by the vets. Funny the dogs don't know the difference !!!!!
Here the government had just brought in micro-chipping thinking in their stupidity that it is going to stop dog attacks. The local councils were going to do the chipping but the vets got together and told the chip supplier that if they didn't sell the chip to then they would stop buying their other products.
End result - council cost for chipping was to be $20
Vets cost for chipping - $80.00+ and extra if the dog need to have a general anesthetic (to put a tiny little chip in!!!)

Another seizure-free night

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:33 am
by welshdog
This is two nights in a row with no seizures.
This was the first time that my dog had so many seizures in a row--seven in less than 24 hrs. Even with the Valium and increase in the PB during this time, recooperation has been so fast. It seems that it took several weeks for her to return to normal behaviour after she seized last month.
I did three things different---1) I had the Bryer's Vanilla ice cream available 2) I did the ice pack on her back 3)I began feeding her about 1/4C of dog food about every three hours.
Give it a try. Might work for you too.

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:53 am
by Finndog
WEll lets hope for many, many more seizure-free, puppy-like days for you both. It could very well be the just like Skrpio said, everything all together and then the ivermectin lowers the threshold just enough. I don't know but it seems the anesthesia is pretty hard on dogs lately. I don't think the vaccines help either. Use this good time to regenerate your own batteries and get some rest.

Regarding the Rabies vaccine, I believe the best option is a 3 year dead virus. In NJ, it is mandatory, no exceptions. The other stuff I titer. Heartworm meds only April or may through October.


Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:31 am
by welshdog
Hi Mr. Finn! Dr. Dodds will also do rabies titers. I am almost certain that I read about someone in N.Y. (not N.J.) was given a "release" from rabies innoculation with a satisfactory rabies titer. May be worth checking into.
Thanks for your well-wishes!

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:34 am
by Finndog
thanks, NJ won't allow titers for Rabies.

Interceptor and Seizures

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:11 pm
by Lilly's Mom
My dog was one day out of the vet from getting stitches on her leg where she had been cut ( cut from jumping up at the window to scare off a cat and broke the window). She had been on Interceptor six months, and it was time for her monthly dosage. I gave it to her even though it was just one day out of surgery, something I now regret as the possibility for the cause of her seizures. She began having seizures (conscious uncontrollable shaking of her head and chest area lasting anywhere from 10 seconds to a minute or more) 2 days after the injury. At first I thought maybe it was a reaction to the anesthesia. Then maybe the amoxicillin she was precribed... we switched to tetracycline... still the seizures. She was prescribed phenobarbital yesterday. She has had three doses, but still has the seizures (I have been told it will take a while). Suddenly it dawned on me that I had given her the Interceptor. I read through the insert in the box and didn't find any cautions or side effects. I looked online and found it in the rare side effects on a web site describing the product. ... nterceptor
It kills me to think I may have caused this reaction in my dog. I will talk to her vet about it this week. I'm not in a high heartworm area, (although there have been a few cases) I just didn't want to take any chances. I am thinking I will keep her on the PB for the month (maybe a few weeks more) and then wean off to see if she is seizure free. I really hope that if it is the Interceptor, it will stop once it has left her system, and not cause permanent damage.

Lilly's seizures

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:42 pm
by welshdog
Hi--I am sorry to hear about Lilly. Seems like this same thing happened to my 10 year old welsh terrier. She went in for dental cleaning and got her immunizations. when she came home that night I gave her the Heartworm preventative. A day later she began with grand-mal seizures. she was healthy before all of this. Her seizures persisted, so she was put on Phenobarbitol. She weighs about 22 lbs. and was put on 1/4 grain am and pm (16 mg). The adjustment to the phenogbarb. wasn't good---she stammered around and pee'd on the floor and carpet, but after about a week or so, she became "somewhat normal". It took me three months to realize that every month when I gave her the heartworm preventative, she began having seizures again. The dosage of the phenobarb. had to be increased---(she is now on 1/2 grain am and pm----32mg)and one month after the heartworm preventative she had multiple grand-mals and had to go in for i.v. valium. We are in an area that has a lot of I tried Interceptor.....seizures...then the next month I tried Revolution. After the Revolution it was TERRIBLE---seizures every hour. I had to go and get liquid valium that I put in her rectum. This stopped the seizures, but two weeks later, she is seizure=free. but her head is not "right"-----she still staggers and stares and acts like she is going to go into another seizure.
I think my dog was too old to be given immunizations, anesthesia for her dental and the heartworm all at once. I presume that she will be on Phenobarbitol forever.....I don't want to risk her going into seizures again. It is like a "double-edged sword"
I can no longer give ANY heartworm preventative. I have tried every brand and they all put her into seizures. So, be wary of the heartworm preventative if this is what you think triggers the seizures. It took me three months to figure it out---but all brands caused seizures with my dog.I have a few more weeks until the Revolution will no longer be effective. I have bought some Adam's flea spray that says it will ward off mosquitoes. This is the only thing that I can use. It makes me so sad---yet I am angry with the vet for putting my 10=year-old girl through so much, which casued her to become an epileptic dog.
Be careful in weaning your Lilly from the PB. This can be tricky and could cause problems....get some advice on this. rather than stopping "cold=turkey".

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:18 am
by skrpio
As I have said before - all of this treatment on top of a general anesthesia is too much. But try and tell the vets that.
They will also not agree to the flea and heartworm treatment contributing to seizures - no clinical proof. And even if there was they would probably not stop giving all vaccinations at one time.
You think about how many "bugs" they are injecting in at one time - there is no way a human would be injected with so many.
Even if you have to go overseas to a country where there is a lot of disease the doctors do not give all the vaccinations at one time. There is usually several weeks in between.
Lily's mum - do not wean off PB unless you are under advice from the vet or the seizures will come back. KiKi has been on PB for over a year now and will have to be seizure free for at least 6 months before the vet will consider weaning her off. Today they took blood for a thyroid test at my request. Out here the test that they do does not take into account the dogs breed and size. So we wait. If she is "below 5" she has a thyroid problem, between 5 & 20 is the grey area and she could have a problem and over 20 she does not have a problem.
The toxins in the body from the treatment will take a long time to come out. It could be up to a year - just take care and try not to put any more in.

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 8:43 pm
by Stephen
Hello everyone. My miniature schnauzer had his first seizure 3 days after giving him Interceptor and Frontline Plus. I am afraid to try them again after reading this. I am also afraid of the vaccinations. There is one vaccianation required for my dog to get groomed. He is scheduled to be groomed on the 30th of this month. What should I do?

Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:25 pm
by High_Voltage_Head
I hadn't seen this thread before. Worrisome, yes, now I have even more doubts about Interceptor. I don't know what to do about heartworm meds, it's mosquito headquarters around here.

Regarding grooming and vaccinations, private groomers don't usually require vacs. Or else do what I a $125 clipper and do it many thousands of dollars in grooming costs over the life of the dog. But don't expect him to win any beauty pageants.