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more seizures--Help!!

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:21 pm
by welshdog
My Nosey dog (10 year old WT)--started PB in Feb. Her blood test for drug level one month later was 13. Not even in range. She got Heartguard Plus Mar-April-May and went back into seizures each time and the PH had to be increased each time. (Last month her PB level was higher--at 19, but yet to reach the "theraputic range". I switched to Interceptor this month. BAD!!!! more grand mal seizures after being seizure-free in between heartworm preventatives. So now NO MORE Heartguard OR Interceptor. This time, after the Interceptor, the seizures were ongoing. I took her in to the vet for I.V. Valium. More seizures. Finally, a week after the Interceptor, multiple seizures (grand mal) and another increase in the PB she is seizure free but is DOPEY and when she goes to stand up all four legs spread out from underneath her. She looks at me like I am a "Goon"---if I clap my hands, she seems to snap out of this crazy dazed behavior. Is this related to the increase of the PB? or are these to be considered "petite mal" or "focal" seizures??? Geez, what a disease!!!
Beth

Posted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 3:43 pm
by skrpio
Unfortunately this is the normal behaviour when increasing medication. It takes about a week for the dog to get used to the new doseage.
I cannot offer you vetinary advice but if the heartworm treatment appears to be causing the seizures (something which you won't get a vet to agree with) then stop them - at least for the time being. There must be something in them that your dog cannot handle.
Maybe you could compare every packet of this kind of treatment and see if there is any ingredient that appears.

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:37 am
by MK's mom
DO NOT stop the heartworm pills if you're in an area where heartworm is a problem. It will cost you a bundle to clear up the heartworm and it could cost your dog it's life!!!

Have you used Heartgard and Interceptor that wasn't a plus or combo? I've been told not to use the combos, so if that's what you used then try to get the regular meds. There are other HW preventatives without the ivermectin, try to find one of those to give your dog.

Seizures are no fun, but heartworm is life threatening to your dog.

response to Skrpio and MK's Mom!

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 5:24 pm
by welshdog
Hey friends, thanks for your response.
I read both of you. It is a situation of being a "double edged sword". She needs the heartworm preventative, but the seizures are also killing both of us.
My vet didn't believe me when I told him that Heartguard was the cause of the seizures. So this month we switched to Interceptor. That started the seizures back again. There is one new product on the market that is like one of those flea products that you apply between the shoulder blades behind their neck. It is called Revolution but is not Ivermectin (that is in Heatguard) and not Miblimycin (that is in Interceptor)---but I just haven't decided what to do.
Interesting that when I talked to the one vet, he said that he had a dog-patient that would begin seizing when it was fed any meat that had a meat tenderizer put on the meat. I guess almost anything can trigger seizures.....
I may take the risk and not give her any heartworm preventative and spritz her down with Adams flea and tick spray (that is supposed to keep off mosquitoes too). She is in the house 99% of the time and only out briefly at bedtime when the mosquitoes are the worst. I have about two more weeks to make my decision. I will keep you all informed.
Thanks all!
Beth

Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2006 8:50 pm
by skrpio
Are you keeping a diary. It's amazing what you can learn from one. When you think nothing is related and then refer back you find out differently.
Keep a note of any treatments/medication and the after effects. Your vet might find this helpful too. A lot of them think that the seizures are all idiopathic but more than not they are caused by an underlying cause.
What ever you do - do not use your Hartz products - check out the Guardian angels site - it's not nice reading.

more on heartworm preventative........

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 5:09 pm
by welshdog
Seizures began in Feb. after immuniztions. They were grand mal. PB controlled the seizures until Heartguard Plus was given in March-April-May. Siezures started back, but it took me three months to realize that it was the Heartguard that was causing the seizures. June, we switched to Interceptor. Grand mal seizures began within 24 hrs. Here we are--July--she had Revolution yesterday for heartworm preventative. About 14 hrs. later seizures began again. No more heartworm preventative. I will spray her with Adams flea and tick spray that is supposed to "fend off' the mosquitoes. Nosey is 10 years old and if I can keep her 'happy" for a few more years and seizure-free, this is my intention.
Beth

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:17 pm
by skrpio
These treatments are causing far too much after effects. I am so glad that we do not have heartworm here but I suppose it will turn up. I am certain that the annual vaccinations set them off and then everything after that causes the same reaction - seizures.
It has been just over a year now since I have given KiKi any treatments of any kind - no vaccinations - nothing.
We have no deodorizers in the house, no perfumed floor cleaners. I try and keep everthing as odour free as I can.
I give a wee bit of garlic every now and then in her food during winter but step it up during summer. Lots of BBQs so there is plenty of garlic around to ward off the mozzies.
I used Advantage and Frontline when I treated her for fleas - she seized. Then I thought why use it if she doesn't have fleas. Dogs mostly get fleas from cats and since there are no cats around - no problem.
I hope you can calm Nosey down and eventually get her seizure free - sometimes it's a long process. Keep in touch.

long night

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 7:07 am
by welshdog
Very long night. 14 hours after the topical application of Revolution for heartworm, the seizures resumed. She had been seizure-free since last month when she got the Interceptor. Nosey had four more seizures last night and after the 4th one at 2:30 this morning i gave her 1/4 grain of pb.
8 am and she just had another seizure. i called the vet this time. He had me give her another 1/4 grain of the pb. If this doesn't control it, next time she will go in and get some i.v Valium. Say a prayer. (No more heartworm, no more immunizations and the vet is going to sign a statement so that she won't have to have rabies shot.) Lots of pee-pee around here. I am going to clean with vinegar water rather than risk using the cleaning chemicals.
Thanks for being here everyone!

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:04 am
by lovemypups
Hi Welshdog,
I'm sorry your Nosey is having so many problems right now. Sometimes those nights can be soooo long! You may want to speak to the vet about rectal valium. I know that no two dogs are alike and what may work for one may not work for another. In our case though, it has worked very well. Right after the first seizure Casey is given the rectal valium and he may have another seizure 20 minutes to an hour later, but given another dose of the valium at that time seems to do the trick. We have just started doing this about 6 weeks ago but I have seen an improvement since using it and we don't go into 4-6 (or more) seizures anymore. Just a thought. Please keep us posted and I hope Nosey is doing better now. Unfortunatley, a lot of us here in the states have no choice and have to give some type of heart worm preventative. Heartworm is really bad in the area I live in and I have been very lucky that my two can take Interceptor without problems.
Please take care and give Nosey a big hug from us and email hugs to you.

Debbie
Casey epi since 05/10/05 and his non epi sister Callie

Valium

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:45 am
by welshdog
Debbie--thanks for your kind message.
if I can get Nosey over this hurdle from giving her that Revolution i think that she will go back to being seizure-free and will be controlled with 1/2 grain of PB in the morning and at night and there will not be a need to have the rectal valium on hand. Her last blood test, her PB was "barely' in the theraputic range, but she remained seizure-free. I think I am luckier than most. Some say that they think Nosey probably has a brain tumor since the seizures started when she was 10 years old. My vet is not a neurologist but he is VERY smart. He said that Nosey would be progressed since her first seizure in Feb and would have more symptoms and could possibly be dead. Nosey's seizures, I am convinced, are strictly drug or chemical induced.
You know, i had another Welsh Terrier and that 'new" Proheart 6 was being used for heartworm preventative. This dog was only 8 years old and within a week of the injection, that dog developed the most horrible neurologic problems--she couldn't stand up and would fall flat on her side--she couldn't walk. Proheart has been taken off the market and there are law suits against the manufacturer of that injection. My little Welsh had to be put down because of the side effects of this drug.
Drugs and immunizations are killing our dogs. Imagine that we are pumping the same dose of DHPP (imunization) into a 20 lb. dog that is given to a 100 lb. great dane. No wonder our dogs are having problems.
My dog is at great risk for heartworm without monthly prevention, but I have to consider quality of life with seizures vs. the risk. At the age of 10, if I am prudent about letting her out in the evening when the mosquitoes are out (more) and she is lucky not to be bitten by an infected mosquito, she could have three to four good years before she would succumb to heartworm disease. It is what you call a "DOUBLE-EDGED SWORD"!
Have a happy day, everone!
Beth

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:56 pm
by Finndog
Welshdog, where do you live? Have you read the posts on Heartworm? Are you sure its the meds causing the Seizures and not something else? What tests have been performed? Some breeds are more susceptable to ivermectin than others such as collies and some other hearding breeds. Others do extremely well and ivermectin is much preferred. My neuro for instance recomended Ivermectin but not the others. http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_he ... n-to-Start

This site lists all that are available and some info on them. Good luck!

seizures and heartworm

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:57 pm
by welshdog
Hi Ms. Finn---I am in Cincinnati, Ohio. Mosquitoes are bad here, In fact I contacted the health department for my county and they are using my yard to trap mosquitoes.---'course they are sending the mosquitoes off to the state lab for West Nile and not heartworm. I thought I could "con" the county into spraying my property---but no such luck!
At first I didn't know what was causing the seizures which started in Feb. (I give heartworm preventative all year long) In Feb she got her annual immunizations and that evening I gave her Heartguard Plus(Ivermectin). She started off with grand mal seizures. March I gave Heartguard Plus again and seizures started up again (She had already been put on PB by this time and it had to be "upped in March). I still didn't put two and two together until the next month--April and Heartguard Plus. At this point I was raising a red flag. I wanted to get away from the Ivermectin (and he doesn't carry the Heartguard without the "plus") So---May, I switched to Interceptor---same thing---grand mal seizures began within 24 hrs. So here we are in July (I missed a month somewhere...) but this month we gave her the topical Revolution that is manufactured by Pfizer---24 hrs. and BINGO!! grand mal seizures. These have been the worst and upping the PB didn't help. So yesterday i met the vet at the clinic and picked up some liquid Valium. Last night when she seized I pumped 2 cc's into her rectum. It took a long time to work and it appeared that she was totally blind and much more agitated than ever before. She finally crashed. It has been almost 24 hrs. now and no seizures. She is still "goofy", drinking volumes of water and I am carrying her in and out of the house regularly so that she won't pee on the carpet. Also, I have been giving her about 1/4 Cup of her kibble about every three hours. The extra food seems to be helping. She is 'stupid-acting' and wanders around, but seems to be improving and NO SEIZURES. We are probably going to move to Texas (Austin) which is even worse for mosquitoes, but i can no longer risk the onset of seizures. I will have to spray her with Adams and be careful about the time of day when the mosquitoes are the worst---generally at sunset--that she gets in and out really fast....
thanks for your concern, but I'm dealing with a double-edge sword!

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:27 pm
by Finndog
well, its Mr. Finn but no worries. Sorry to hear of your predicament. The only thing that I'm confused on is that the dog was on a monthly heartworm med (not sure which one) prior to the reaction with the vaccine. What was he on before and for how long? It seems odd that all of a sudden this has precipitated now. The dog is 10? Have you seen a neurologist and looked into the possibility of tumors or other neurological issues? FYI- mosquito traps actually attract mosquitos to your property so you may want to have them move those traps at least a good 1/4 mile away from your home. I'm sure you have done this but did you have a full blood test including a CBC and tox screen including lead test? Urinalysis and acid bile test? How about a Lyme test (IDEXX 3dx, not a SNAP)? I would make sure you have eliminated all of the other possibilities at this point. Also, which vaccine did you have? I would think that maybe a call to Dr. Jean Dodd may be helpful. (Autoimmunologist).

more on heartworm preventative........

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:59 pm
by welshdog
Hi Mr. Finn--I have read many, if not all of your posts--doesn't matter that your are Male-i just thought you were the 'lady of the house".
Nosey has been on Ivermectin for most of her life.(she's 10 y.o. now) At one time when I was breeding and had a large kennel I was preparing a coctail of Bovine Ivermectin, but when the numbers got down on my dogs, I switched to Heartguard Plus (same--ivermectin)., supplied by my vet with annual heartworm blood testing
Interesting that you should ask about this, because this has been part of the question about what to blame for the seizures. Nosey had been having repeated vaginitis. So in Feb. when she got her (Ft. Dodge) DHPP, she was anesthetized with Isoflourine and had her teeth scaled and had her vagina douched (deeply). When she came home that night is when I gave her the Heartguard Plus. BTW, her chemistry profile and urinalysis were normal at the time she underwent the dental and vaginal douching.
At first I was blaming the Isoflourine (anesthesia) or the immunizations.
But then, month after month (and seizure-free in between)---the heartworm preventative has initiated the seizures. So what would you say?
I questioned a brain tumor with my vet. He is very saavy. He assured me that she would have progressed and had more symptoms--neuro or visual--if she had a brain tumor. In between the heartworm preventatives and after the recooperation from either Valium or an increase in the PB, she is 100% normal. This points to heartworm preventative.
With the mosquito trap that the County has put out--it is at the far end of my property and is a small battery-operated trap. They are looking for West Nile mosquito vectors. I talked with the tech. today and he said by this time last year they had reports from the State lab (Ohio) of West Nile mosquito vectors...but none so far this year. Unfortunate that they aren't testing for heartworm-carrying mosquitoes!!!
I have to report some good news and a possible finding about my epi kid.
24 hrs. ago she was in a bad way--7 grand mals in less than 24 hrs. I picked up the liquid Valium and after her seizure 24 hrs. ago and 2 cc of rectal valium, my dog is nearly 90% normal. Most of the day I was carrying her out to the back yard to pee so she wouldn't pee in the house. Yesterday she couldn't walk and would bang into the wall or find herself in a corner and couldn't get out... Late this afternoon she appeared as normal as a young dog. She went in and out the dog door on her own, up and down the deck steps with no need for asistance.
Only thing that I did that was different was to feed her about 1/4 Cup of her kibble (Nutro Lamb and Rice) every 2-3 hrs. This could also be a clue to her seizures and rehab. Tonight is like she never had a grand mal yesterday.
I hope I can give you an equally good report tomorrow. Her blood sugar level could be another key to the puzzle with these seizures. Don't know..

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:10 pm
by skrpio
Maybe with so much happening to her in one go the heartworm treatment just put her over the top.
Dr Dodds does suggest that any treatments with "PLUS" on them should not be used.
As far as the PB goes - my vet told me if KiKi clusters to give her an extra dose as well as the vallium. He suspects that the seizure occurs if the PB level has gone down too much. Sometimes KiKi "loses" one of her tablets as I find them around the house where they have fallen out of her jowls.
Is this kibble you are feeding something new ?
KiKi had vaginitis in Jan 2005 but did not have a douche. She was put on medication for a month and had her annual vaccination in Feb 2005 and started seizing in March 2005.